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Forums - Nintendo - Has Nintendo Lost the Hardcore Gamer? article by IGN

Picko on 25 November 2008
Stever89 said:
Star Scream said:
Gamerace said:
Ah the cries of the so-called hardcore gamers as their dominance of the market is washed away by the whims and fancies of little girls, soccer moms and seniors.

 

I'm hardly hardcore, but that's nothing to be proud. Lowest common denominator is always trash.

 

There's nothing wrong with other types of people getting into gaming. The world's not going to end, "hardcore" games are not going to disappear or reduce in quality or quantity... everyone acts like since the industry is expanding companies will have fewer "hardcore" games because they will make more "casual" games... that won't happen. They hire more people, and produce more games. Every market does this (at least markets that grow), and new companies emerge. Only when "hardcore" gamers stop buying so-called "hardcore" games will those types of games stop being made.

There's more than enough room for everyone. ALl this does is make people more accpetable to gaming (which is good because politicians may be more easy with regulations... we can hope), and keeps the market healthy. I doubt many here would rather see gaming disappear than see it expand to the more "non-gamers" and "casuals." Note though that "casuals" have been around since the PS1 era... Sony was the one brought them in the first place. The SNES was probably the last true "hardcore" gamers system... since back then it was still consider niche. Let's not even go into how Sony and Microsoft (especially Sony) advertise their systems as "multimedia centers." They are just asking for all those people that don't play games often to buy their system for non-gaming reasons, such as blu-ray. Course, price is a bit high... but oh well. Let's NOT get into a price discussion though! I don't have the strength.

 

 

I agree with the first part of your first paragraph. However it could be considered a problem if other groups feel that there is little left for them, which appears to be how they feel. The second part is a little more questionable - if the casual audience is so much bigger than the hardcore (or more traditional) audience then companies will dedicate larger resources towards the casual audience. This isn't a problem when the games are Mario and the like, which have both casual and hardcore appeal (and are typically of a high quality) but in a lot of cases this has lead to a declining quality of games - which is the third party problem that many have. An issue here is that there is little incentive for companies to improve the quality of their casual software - because there is a belief (and it isn't unwarranted) that casual gamers are less aware of quality.

(Oh and for the record, the Dreamcast was the last great hardcore system)

 



 
Debating with fanboys, its not
all that dissimilar to banging ones
head against a wall 
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Khuutra on 25 November 2008
Star Scream said:
Lack of depth in most cases. Not that the demographic mind - most of them just want quick fix, not games like original Metroid.

 

No, they'd be more into Super Mario Bros., I'm sure.



Star Scream on 25 November 2008
Picko said:
Stever89 said:
Star Scream said:
Gamerace said:
Ah the cries of the so-called hardcore gamers as their dominance of the market is washed away by the whims and fancies of little girls, soccer moms and seniors.

 

I'm hardly hardcore, but that's nothing to be proud. Lowest common denominator is always trash.

 

There's nothing wrong with other types of people getting into gaming. The world's not going to end, "hardcore" games are not going to disappear or reduce in quality or quantity... everyone acts like since the industry is expanding companies will have fewer "hardcore" games because they will make more "casual" games... that won't happen. They hire more people, and produce more games. Every market does this (at least markets that grow), and new companies emerge. Only when "hardcore" gamers stop buying so-called "hardcore" games will those types of games stop being made.

There's more than enough room for everyone. ALl this does is make people more accpetable to gaming (which is good because politicians may be more easy with regulations... we can hope), and keeps the market healthy. I doubt many here would rather see gaming disappear than see it expand to the more "non-gamers" and "casuals." Note though that "casuals" have been around since the PS1 era... Sony was the one brought them in the first place. The SNES was probably the last true "hardcore" gamers system... since back then it was still consider niche. Let's not even go into how Sony and Microsoft (especially Sony) advertise their systems as "multimedia centers." They are just asking for all those people that don't play games often to buy their system for non-gaming reasons, such as blu-ray. Course, price is a bit high... but oh well. Let's NOT get into a price discussion though! I don't have the strength.

 

 

I agree with the first part of your first paragraph. However it could be considered a problem if other groups feel that there is little left for them, which appears to be how they feel. The second part is a little more questionable - if the casual audience is so much bigger than the hardcore (or more traditional) audience then companies will dedicate larger resources towards the casual audience. This isn't a problem when the games are Mario and the like, which have both casual and hardcore appeal (and are typically of a high quality) but in a lot of cases this has lead to a declining quality of games - which is the third party problem that many have. An issue here is that there is little incentive for companies to improve the quality of their casual software - because there is a belief (and it isn't unwarranted) that casual gamers are less aware of quality.

(Oh and for the record, the Dreamcast was the last great hardcore system)

 

 

Excellent post - that's about it.

 



Valkyria00 on 25 November 2008
Stever89 said:
Star Scream said:
Gamerace said:
Ah the cries of the so-called hardcore gamers as their dominance of the market is washed away by the whims and fancies of little girls, soccer moms and seniors.

 

I'm hardly hardcore, but that's nothing to be proud. Lowest common denominator is always trash.

 

There's nothing wrong with other types of people getting into gaming. The world's not going to end, "hardcore" games are not going to disappear or reduce in quality or quantity... everyone acts like since the industry is expanding companies will have fewer "hardcore" games because they will make more "casual" games... that won't happen. They hire more people, and produce more games. Every market does this (at least markets that grow), and new companies emerge. Only when "hardcore" gamers stop buying so-called "hardcore" games will those types of games stop being made.

There's more than enough room for everyone. ALl this does is make people more accpetable to gaming (which is good because politicians may be more easy with regulations... we can hope), and keeps the market healthy. I doubt many here would rather see gaming disappear than see it expand to the more "non-gamers" and "casuals." Note though that "casuals" have been around since the PS1 era... Sony was the one brought them in the first place. The SNES was probably the last true "hardcore" gamers system... since back then it was still consider niche. Let's not even go into how Sony and Microsoft (especially Sony) advertise their systems as "multimedia centers." They are just asking for all those people that don't play games often to buy their system for non-gaming reasons, such as blu-ray. Course, price is a bit high... but oh well. Let's NOT get into a price discussion though! I don't have the strength.

Minus the spelling errors. GENIUS! Excellent post.

 



Avinash_Tyagi on 25 November 2008

"core games" will never die as long as their exists a segment of the market that demands those games someone will cater to it, the numbers might diminish from a majority, but they will still exist



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Stever89 on 25 November 2008
Picko said:
Stever89 said:
Star Scream said:
Gamerace said:
Ah the cries of the so-called hardcore gamers as their dominance of the market is washed away by the whims and fancies of little girls, soccer moms and seniors.

 

I'm hardly hardcore, but that's nothing to be proud. Lowest common denominator is always trash.

 

There's nothing wrong with other types of people getting into gaming. The world's not going to end, "hardcore" games are not going to disappear or reduce in quality or quantity... everyone acts like since the industry is expanding companies will have fewer "hardcore" games because they will make more "casual" games... that won't happen. They hire more people, and produce more games. Every market does this (at least markets that grow), and new companies emerge. Only when "hardcore" gamers stop buying so-called "hardcore" games will those types of games stop being made.

There's more than enough room for everyone. ALl this does is make people more accpetable to gaming (which is good because politicians may be more easy with regulations... we can hope), and keeps the market healthy. I doubt many here would rather see gaming disappear than see it expand to the more "non-gamers" and "casuals." Note though that "casuals" have been around since the PS1 era... Sony was the one brought them in the first place. The SNES was probably the last true "hardcore" gamers system... since back then it was still consider niche. Let's not even go into how Sony and Microsoft (especially Sony) advertise their systems as "multimedia centers." They are just asking for all those people that don't play games often to buy their system for non-gaming reasons, such as blu-ray. Course, price is a bit high... but oh well. Let's NOT get into a price discussion though! I don't have the strength.

 

 

I agree with the first part of your first paragraph. However it could be considered a problem if other groups feel that there is little left for them, which appears to be how they feel. The second part is a little more questionable - if the casual audience is so much bigger than the hardcore (or more traditional) audience then companies will dedicate larger resources towards the casual audience. This isn't a problem when the games are Mario and the like, which have both casual and hardcore appeal (and are typically of a high quality) but in a lot of cases this has lead to a declining quality of games - which is the third party problem that many have. An issue here is that there is little incentive for companies to improve the quality of their casual software - because there is a belief (and it isn't unwarranted) that casual gamers are less aware of quality.

(Oh and for the record, the Dreamcast was the last great hardcore system)

 

I was going to mention the Dreamcast, because it probably is... but decided against it.

And can I get an example of an industry that introduced a new genres and immediately (or even over a course of a long time) completely abandoned the old genres, even when there was demand for such genres?

The movie industry, for example, still does all sorts of high quality genres, from action, to romance, to musicals, to fantasy, etc. They don't do silent movies anymore though. Not sure how many people miss those. The music industry has tons of genres (or only 3 or 4 depending on how you look at it, and many sub-genres...), and I don't think there's a lack of quality songs for anyone interested in any particular genre.

Basically, if every single company in the world moved over to these "casual" games (that don't really exsist if you ask me, they are "social games," and they don't have to be the mini-game fest that most "casual" games are [most are not Nintendo games... ] but that's another discussion), then I'll be the first to create the most "hardcore" company EVER because there will be so much demand for it, and so littly supply, every single game will be a hit. I would expect them to have to be high quality, because we all know how "hardcore" users don't buy bad games. Who ever wants in, let me know. We'll be millionaires overnight probably.

Also, since "casuals" buy fewer games (or spend more time completing a game...), and with more competion in that genre, all those terrible companies who abondened the "hardcore" will be destroyed, like EA, Ubisoft, SE, all of them, wasting their money on that. So it'll be Nintendo (who makes money on hardware and doesn't fall for thise "casual" phase), and my company, and we will rule the gaming world!!! Who's with me?

In summary, free markets works in most industries, I see no reason for it not to work in gaming. As long as YOU (the "hardcore" gamer) demands it, they will supply it.

 

Edit: to Valkyria00- It's late and spell checker isn't working for some reason. lol



Khuutra on 25 November 2008
Khuutra said:
Star Scream said:
Lack of depth in most cases. Not that the demographic mind - most of them just want quick fix, not games like original Metroid.

 

No, they'd be more into Super Mario Bros., I'm sure.

 

The point I was making here (there was a point) that the archetypal video game of all time was a pick-up-and-play, eminently "casual" title.



The Ghost of RubangB on 25 November 2008

Dear IGN,

Let me know when you see grown men posing naked with Sony and/or Microsoft products.

Yours,
Naked Nintendo-Loving Rubang



twitter.com/evaneldeneller

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Ryudo on 25 November 2008
alfredofroylan said:

I honestly hate that "Hardcore-Casual" crap, it's only for rabbids fanboys on forums.

 

Agreed.

And wait till 2009. Many will come back with the lineup coming :D



Bong Lover on 25 November 2008

The oceans of bitter tears...

IGN again makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. People will actually read this article and think it makes sense, which makes me want to cry, but on the other hand, 'marquee' names in the video games business again displays their complete lack of understanding of gaming, which makes me want to laugh.

In the real world, 'hardcore' gamers should be down on their knees kissing the feet of Miyamoto, thanking him for saving gaming yet again.

Just recently I played Gears of War 2 by chance, and I was shocked. It's mind numbing how little that genre has evolved over time. Nothing has changed since the last time I played a game like that 4 years ago. It looks pretty, but the whole game feels extremely stale.

If Nintendo had followed Microsoft and Sony down the path of turning consoles into computers, video gaming would be in a world of trouble. The market was already stagnant before the current gen, and PS3 and Xbox 360 sure as fuck has not done anything to grow the industry.

No, if you care about games be grateful that we still have a real life genius who loves gaming among us still , a man that can get the idea for a great game from something as mundane as weighing himself.

This industry is so overpopulated with copycats that it is desperate for creative input and new directions. Only a very small percentage of 'gamers' want to play the same shooters over and over with different character models, be grateful that Nintendo recognized that fact and did something about it. If you don't believe me, look at the sales numbers and the buzz around gaming going into the Christmas season, then imagine gaming without the Wii. If you think about it, you'll probably want to tip your hat to the great Shigeru Miyamoto after all.