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amirnetz on 23 November 2008
madkiller said:

"HD is done: Most people cannot see the difference between 720p and 1080p. Minimize the investments in greater graphical capabilities. Instead learn from Ninty and invest in new experiences that could appeal to families. Capping HD where it is today makes sense because anyway the studios are struggling with the cost of HD game productions."

LMAO, this is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. First off, you are comparing HD to better HD. The Wii is 480P at best. Secondly, if you have a real TV then you can definitely tell the difference, if you can't then you are just blind.

madkiller - I suspect you misread my post.

When I say its "done" I mean "the PS3 and 360 got it done well enough and the next gen should not be focusing on taking it much further because you'll get diminishing returns". What Ninty showed is that you can be successful even without HD if you got the overall experience right. I am not saying to move back to 480p, I am saying that what we have from the 360 and PS3 in graphical power is very good already and the the innovation of the new gen should come from another direction. 

 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

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amirnetz on 23 November 2008
madkiller said:

 Once again this makes making a new system completely pointless and a waste of time. You need to learn really quickly that new game systems will always dwarf the previous ones. This is called technology progression and has been happening since the beginning of mankind. This will never change, EVER...

 

Ninty showed that the new system does not need to "dwarf" the previous one. The Wii is not much better technologically than the GC. It did however introduce a new experience - motion sensitive controls.

So you are partially right - the new gen must introduce something much better than the previous generation. The innovation and progression just does not have to be based on processing power and can be done in a way that allows the previous generation to be upgraded instead of being rendered obsolite.

For this gen, Microsoft added Power, On-Line and HD, Sony offered Power, BR and HD and the Wii offered just motion sensitive controls as a standard accessory. Interesting that the winner was the one who offered something that could have run on the old-gen HW as well.



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

Mistershine on 23 November 2008
Munkeh111 said:
I am the only one who does not want 3D, I don't want it to seem as though somebody is cutting my throat out, I am very happy with just 2D screens

You're not alone. But I think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't want 'waggle' controls.



madkiller on 23 November 2008
Mistershine said:
Munkeh111 said:
I am the only one who does not want 3D, I don't want it to seem as though somebody is cutting my throat out, I am very happy with just 2D screens

You're not alone. But I think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't want 'waggle' controls.

I don't want waggle controls either. I had a Wii for about 6 months and got tired of having to flick my wrist a million times just to do simple tasks. This does not make the games better, it makes them more tedious and tiresome in my opinion...



"If you don't like me, bite me!"

madkiller on 23 November 2008
amirnetz said:
madkiller said:

"HD is done: Most people cannot see the difference between 720p and 1080p. Minimize the investments in greater graphical capabilities. Instead learn from Ninty and invest in new experiences that could appeal to families. Capping HD where it is today makes sense because anyway the studios are struggling with the cost of HD game productions."

LMAO, this is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. First off, you are comparing HD to better HD. The Wii is 480P at best. Secondly, if you have a real TV then you can definitely tell the difference, if you can't then you are just blind.

madkiller - I suspect you misread my post.

When I say its "done" I mean "the PS3 and 360 got it done well enough and the next gen should not be focusing on taking it much further because you'll get diminishing returns". What Ninty showed is that you can be successful even without HD if you got the overall experience right. I am not saying to move back to 480p, I am saying that what we have from the 360 and PS3 in graphical power is very good already and the the innovation of the new gen should come from another direction. 

 

1080P is going to be the peak for a very long time, just like 480P was the peak for a very long time. Next generation won't be about introducing a new format, it will be about improving the current one. However, Nintendo decided to keep the old format, which limits what their system is capable of doing. Any game made for all 3 consoles is always better on the 2 HD ones, period...

 



"If you don't like me, bite me!"

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amirnetz on 23 November 2008
flagship said:
Good points, especially about focus on keeping user base and expansion beyond games.

Although I think running higher resolution HD and making the next xbox a true sequel rather than a MKII are necessities, systems not only have to compete with each other but with the ever improving PC as well. The problem with a Mark II system is that it not only limits graphics but also processing power. Compare a mark 2 system to the PCs that will be available in the later days of its life span and it's like comparing a SNES to a PS2, slap as big a graphics card and as much RAM as you want in a SNES it's still going to get its ass kicked because the CPU is incredibly inferior. The end result of this is that most of your hardcore audience will have jumped ship for the PC, not just because the games look graphically better but because processor capabilities will have limited the SNES further (difficulties in running 3D engines, storage space issues of carts verse DVDs, number of enemies on screen, AI of enemies, lack of destructible terrain, etc.)

Now I'm not saying that a Mark II system (GC to Wii) can't be fun but it certainly limits programing options. Dead Rising is the classic example, 360 version can run a hundred zombies on screen, the Wii version thus far is at a dozen. Over the next couple years these issues are going to become more and more apparent and while casuals probably won't care all that much they aren't buying a whole lot of games either.

Your points are valid. Microsoft will need to figure out what the most important thing for its customers and its business. For Microsoft there is a clear interest to maintain its existing base and not to start all over again in the new gen. Microsoft is not keen on starting to lose money again on the introduction of new and expensive hardware and it must not risk the revenue stream from royalties and subscriptions.

There are some nice HW upgrades that are easy to add to the Mark II without causing disruption. For example - an imporved graphics engine that allows drawing more poligons/sec on the screen could make for a better gaming experience with higher res/fps on Mark II but still allowing the old 360 to run the same title well.

Other HW upgrade are more challenging: Adding more gaming processors and more memory will break the forward compatibility proposition.

There could be a compromise though - the extra processing power and memory could be in the box available for non-gaming functionalities (e.g. DVR, Streaming, VR/3D) and have them enabled for gaming (through firmware upgrade) 2-3 years down the rode when the Mark II installed base is large enough and the 360 installed base had started moving to the Mark II on its own. This would surely be controvertail.
 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

amirnetz on 23 November 2008
Mistershine said:
Munkeh111 said:
I am the only one who does not want 3D, I don't want it to seem as though somebody is cutting my throat out, I am very happy with just 2D screens

You're not alone. But I think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't want 'waggle' controls.

How do you know if you'd like 3D gaming? There is no good system in the market that does it, and whoever does it well might discover that 3D gaming is the next killer experience. I don't know, but please accept that neither do you. None of us could have guess the impact of motion controls on the market, but Ninty did it right and changed everything.

For all its worth, I am a hardcore gamer and while I am excited about the potential prospects of a Gears 3D, I would never give up my 360 controller for the Wii's controllers. But I respect that for some apps (tennis, bowling, sword fighting) the Wii experience is superior.

I propose that the 360 will come with several types of controls to make it suitable for both hardcore and casual experiences. Heck - even a TV like remote control should come standard with a console that has media aspirations.

 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

madkiller on 23 November 2008
amirnetz said:
Mistershine said:
Munkeh111 said:
I am the only one who does not want 3D, I don't want it to seem as though somebody is cutting my throat out, I am very happy with just 2D screens

You're not alone. But I think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't want 'waggle' controls.

How do you know if you'd like 3D gaming? There is no good system in the market that does it, and whoever does it well might discover that 3D gaming is the next killer experience. I don't know, but please accept that neither do you. None of us could have guess the impact of motion controls on the market, but Ninty did it right and changed everything.

For all its worth, I am a hardcore gamer and while I am excited about the potential prospects of a Gears 3D, I would never give up my 360 controller for the Wii's controllers. But I respect that for some apps (tennis, bowling, sword fighting) the Wii experience is superior.

I propose that the 360 will come with several types of controls to make it suitable for both hardcore and casual experiences. Heck - even a TV like remote control should come standard with a console that has media aspirations.

 

 

 The virtual boy says hello...



"If you don't like me, bite me!"

amirnetz on 23 November 2008
madkiller said:

1080P is going to be the peak for a very long time, just like 480P was the peak for a very long time. Next generation won't be about introducing a new format, it will be about improving the current one. However, Nintendo decided to keep the old format, which limits what their system is capable of doing. Any game made for all 3 consoles is always better on the 2 HD ones, period...

 

I think we are mostly agreeing. Advancing the current HD capabilties of the PS3 and the 360 (both are 1080p capable) is not where the innovation is going to come from. We are at 1080p today and this is where it is going to stay for a long time. The progression and innovation of the new gen is going to come from somewhere else. 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

Hawkeye on 23 November 2008

Also, if the next Xbox has gears at laucnh and only marginally better graphics (may be Dreamcast to PS2 like bump) I would never buy it.