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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Third parties pull a fast one and blame Nintendo for their own crappy games

vdoesntforgive on 23 November 2008
Pristine20 said:

 

It's not ironic at all if you've been following my points. GC was a traditional console like everything else before it. It "made sense" to 3rd parties. The wii? Not so much.

 

It doesn't make sense to you (and them) because they've built up a false perception in their collective heads. No one says traditional games don't work on the wii but them, regardless of examples that prove otherwise.

 

But I won't go on.  It's a boring discussion, hoping western tp's would see sense, and it only goes around in circles. It's 1am and the wii still won't get the support people ask for by the end of this thread, so why bother right?

 

Right.

 

Good night.



 

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noname2200 on 23 November 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:

I agree with the 2nd half of your post, with the "too bad" argument and calling them little man-children.  Right on the money.

But I disagree with your view of modern art.  I think the greatest artists of the 20th century were doing whatever they wanted.  I'm not saying all artists who do whatever they want are good artists.  But I do believe that the majority of the greatest artists work that way.  My examples shall be: Marcel Duchamp, David Lynch, Shigeru Miyamoto, David Bowie, Brian Eno, the Residents, the Beatles, Frank Zappa, Pablo Picasso, Kraftwerk, Devo, Luis Buñuel, Salvador Dalí, John Cage, Bruce Cornell, Björk, and even Walt Disney.

Except that I don't like some of the people on your list...

And keep in mind that I was stating a general rule, one which even some of the people I cited occasionally broke. Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata, for instance, were created because Beethoven wanted to get in some chick's skirt, not because he was on commission. They're also some of my personal favorites.

And Miyamoto and Disney, at least, always had the customer at the forefront of their mind when they made their stuff. From everything I've read, they didn't work to please themselves, they worked to please us, the customers. Granted, their way of doing so involved asking themselves what we want, rather than asking us what we want, but Miyamoto did not make Donkey Kong because he felt like creating a masterpiece, and Disney did not indulge himself in spending millions to make a movie that pleased him first and foremost. They both just wanted to entertain: the art part took care of itself.

In general, though, I'm sticking to my guns on this one, Rubang. Customer-oriented art is generally better than artist-oriented stuff.

 



Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
vdoesntforgive said:
Pristine20 said:

 

It's not ironic at all if you've been following my points. GC was a traditional console like everything else before it. It "made sense" to 3rd parties. The wii? Not so much.

 

It doesn't make sense to you (and them) because they've built up a false perception in their collective heads. No one says traditional games don't work on the wii but them, regardless of examples that prove otherwise.

 

But I won't go on.  It's a boring discussion, hoping western tp's would see sense, and it only goes around in circles. It's 1am and the wii still won't get the support people ask for by the end of this thread, so why bother right?

 

Right.

 

Good night.

Wow, it's only 8:30pm here.

See, the problem is, although it may be a false perception, it's a perception that sits in the minds of those that make the games we love to play.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
noname2200 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

I agree with the 2nd half of your post, with the "too bad" argument and calling them little man-children.  Right on the money.

But I disagree with your view of modern art.  I think the greatest artists of the 20th century were doing whatever they wanted.  I'm not saying all artists who do whatever they want are good artists.  But I do believe that the majority of the greatest artists work that way.  My examples shall be: Marcel Duchamp, David Lynch, Shigeru Miyamoto, David Bowie, Brian Eno, the Residents, the Beatles, Frank Zappa, Pablo Picasso, Kraftwerk, Devo, Luis Buñuel, Salvador Dalí, John Cage, Bruce Cornell, Björk, and even Walt Disney.

Except that I don't like some of the people on your list...

And keep in mind that I was stating a general rule, one which even some of the people I cited occasionally broke. Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata, for instance, were created because Beethoven wanted to get in some chick's skirt, not because he was on commission. They're also some of my personal favorites.

And Miyamoto and Disney, at least, always had the customer at the forefront of their mind when they made their stuff. From everything I've read, they didn't work to please themselves, they worked to please us, the customers. Granted, their way of doing so involved asking themselves what we want, rather than asking us what we want, but Miyamoto did not make Donkey Kong because he felt like creating a masterpiece, and Disney did not indulge himself in spending millions to make a movie that pleased him first and foremost. They both just wanted to entertain: the art part took care of itself.

In general, though, I'm sticking to my guns on this one, Rubang. Customer-oriented art is generally better than artist-oriented stuff.

 

 

You know it's funny, perhaps this is why wii music isn't as successful as guitar. I heard that in wii music you actually have to learn how to play the song (which sits well with true artists like miyamoto) whereas in guitar hero, you just push buttons on the guitar at the prompts. Wii music would obviously be the better game to Miyamoto lol



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Squilliam on 23 November 2008

Are the Wii owners here even representative of the wider Wii audience? I walk into a shop on those rare occasions, look at the games selections of each system and I can see that my needs are fully catered for by the Xbox 360/PS3. I look at the Wii section and its pretty obvious its not catering to me.

Essentially what it seems the complaints are about is this, "We want the Wii to be the PS2". Because really I don't think that the Wii owners here represent more than a third of the actual audience for the Wii and certainly even fewer of the 600,000 consoles sold each week are likely to have tastes which match the Wii users on this site.

Games are coming out that are attempting to cater to the Wii audience and they don't exist to the Wii users here. Not unless they serve a purpose in some argument. Carnival games, noone spoke about it unless they were complaining until it happened to sell over a million.

So its not that the games don't exist, they just don't cater to the Wii users here and therefore may as well not exist for all intents and purposes, well not unless they sell over a million and then they are used to support the system in arguments.



Tease.

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Khuutra on 23 November 2008
Squilliam said:

Are the Wii owners here even representative of the wider Wii audience? I walk into a shop on those rare occasions, look at the games selections of each system and I can see that my needs are fully catered for by the Xbox 360/PS3. I look at the Wii section and its pretty obvious its not catering to me.

Essentially what it seems the complaints are about is this, "We want the Wii to be the PS2". Because really I don't think that the Wii owners here represent more than a third of the actual audience for the Wii and certainly even fewer of the 600,000 consoles sold each week are likely to have tastes which match the Wii users on this site.

Games are coming out that are attempting to cater to the Wii audience and they don't exist to the Wii users here. Not unless they serve a purpose in some argument. Carnival games, noone spoke about it unless they were complaining until it happened to sell over a million.

So its not that the games don't exist, they just don't cater to the Wii users here and therefore may as well not exist for all intents and purposes, well not unless they sell over a million and then they are used to support the system in arguments.

 

That seems a bit of a logical fallacy - "it's being produced, therefore it must be what people want"? That doesn't strike you as ass-backwards at all?



wartaal on 23 November 2008

This holiday makes it painfully obvious, you dont need good games to sell hardware.
Its sad to see the PS3 and X360 getting bomarded by dozens of AAA titles this last 6/9 months, only too see them both combined being outsold by a overpriced piece of hardware with allmost no good new games.



Squilliam on 23 November 2008
Khuutra said:
Squilliam said:

Are the Wii owners here even representative of the wider Wii audience? I walk into a shop on those rare occasions, look at the games selections of each system and I can see that my needs are fully catered for by the Xbox 360/PS3. I look at the Wii section and its pretty obvious its not catering to me.

Essentially what it seems the complaints are about is this, "We want the Wii to be the PS2". Because really I don't think that the Wii owners here represent more than a third of the actual audience for the Wii and certainly even fewer of the 600,000 consoles sold each week are likely to have tastes which match the Wii users on this site.

Games are coming out that are attempting to cater to the Wii audience and they don't exist to the Wii users here. Not unless they serve a purpose in some argument. Carnival games, noone spoke about it unless they were complaining until it happened to sell over a million.

So its not that the games don't exist, they just don't cater to the Wii users here and therefore may as well not exist for all intents and purposes, well not unless they sell over a million and then they are used to support the system in arguments.

 

That seems a bit of a logical fallacy - "it's being produced, therefore it must be what people want"? That doesn't strike you as ass-backwards at all?

Isn't it a logical fallacy to assume that the members on this site who use the Wii as their primary game device are representative of the larger Wii audience?

Wii users here (Hardcore) ----> Core Wii users -----> Lifestyle Wii gamers.

5% -------> 25% ---------------> 70%

If people want something, it sells, if it sells more is produced. Supply and demand.

 

 



Tease.

spdk1 on 23 November 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:
DTG said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Esa-Petteri said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Wow, this jackass doesn't get it either. I don't want games ported up from the PS2, but at the same time (what this guy doesn't get), I don't want games ported down from the PS360. I want original games tailored to the Wii's advantages and disadvantages. When that happens, those games do really well.

 

 

Hasn't that happened already? Mario&sonic,carnival games,game party,RRR? I haven't played all of those games, but I think they do use wiimotes advantages. Not to mention that they have been great successes so they must have been "tailored" to wii.

Yes it has happened already (I didn't claim it hadn't), and many of those games have sold well.

Just like No More Heroes sold well.  And many other 3rd party games.  Those are the 3rd parties that get it.  They make new unique games tailored to the Wii.  When companies give the Wii sloppy ports, they don't sell well.  Those companies should shut up and learn how to make good games.  It is my hope that they actually don't shut up and learn how to make good games, and they simply go out of business and leave us all alone.  The industry will be better, and leave room for better companies with new and unique ideas.

Now which one of those games has an amazing storyline? The problem with all well selling wii games is that the narratives suck and the platform just doesn't seem to support third party's that might want to create a game backed purely by an enticing narrative disregarding the wii's gameplay strength or weaknessess. Unless story heavy games can survive on the wii it will never be taken seriously.

Amazing storyline?  Of course Nintendo hardware could never handle a storyline as groundbreaking and world-changing as MGS4.  The story alone was so deep the Cell could barely handle it.  Narratives require real horsepower.  That's why I only read books on my PS3 internet browser.

LOL!!!

 



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mike_intellivision on 23 November 2008
Squilliam said:

Isn't it a logical fallacy to assume that the members on this site who use the Wii as their primary game device are representative of the larger Wii audience?

Wii users here (Hardcore) ----> Core Wii users -----> Lifestyle Wii gamers.

5% -------> 25% ---------------> 70%

If people want something, it sells, if it sells more is produced. Supply and demand.

 

 

Squilliam

Do you have anything to back up these estimates?

Also, if this is true, it does not mean that Lifestyle gamers don't buy games. After all, the Wii has a slightly higher attach rate globally than the PS3.

 

Mike from Morgantown

 

Did you know that "lifestyle" is a code word for "swinging"? Does that mean people are using their Wii's to have affairs?

 



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

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