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Forums - Gaming - Which game has been , is the biggest technical achievement this gen.

Diomedes1976 on 18 November 2008

Mm ,really hard to say.

Pure production values:MGS4 .

Originality and implementation of online :Little Big Planet .

Sheer graphical prowess:GT5 P and Wipeout HD

More flashy graphics:Gears of War 2 ,Uncharted ,MGS4

Better add on:Wiimote ,balance board



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Infamous on 18 November 2008

Lol @ people saying MGS4.

Gears 2, hands down. Uncharted for a runner up.

L4D for it's AI.

GTA4 for just about everything put together.



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Screamer77 on 18 November 2008

I don`t think GTA4 at all really - I don`t think it offered much more than San Andreas, it just looked a little better and I certainly didnt` enjoy it as much as even Vice City (still my fave). MGS4 was great, and astounded me in the metal gear battle, that was incredible. I would say COD4 is in with a shout everything considered. I haven`t played LBP yet. Er...I go with MGS4 because it has everything...visuals, storyline, versatility, excitement, music and completely immerses you in it`s world.



goddog on 18 November 2008
NJ5 said:
goddog said:
NJ5 said:

@chasmatic12: Yes, along with Metroid Prime 3 (which has a few framerate problems but they're quite rare) and Mario Kart Wii. All these three games run at 60 fps too, unlike the vast majority of HD shooter games. Wii games in general have high and steady framerates as far as I've seen.

@Million: I think you're right, developers push the PS3 and 360 too much. They should tone it down a little so that their games actually look like true professional efforts without framerate hiccups every few minutes (or worse).

One of the advantages of consoles is that developers know the target hardware where their games will run (unlike PC developers where you can only test a few configurations). Yet, during this gen they still manage to regularly end up with technically sub-par games.

To sum up, my request to developers is: Fewer polygons and a little more quality please.

 

 

you would think it would be an easier because of the same hardware, but as board remakes and die shrinks change thinks, they actually mess with how games run, this genreation, has been far more effected by this then prior ones. (thought the ps2 had its share of issues with certain models unable to play all ps2 games). die shrinks, and even worse hardware removal, or combining chips, can have unforeseen side effects. if this generation is suffering from something, its the shear number of different base units that are needed to play test for bugs that are hardware layout specific. 

on a side note, i have noticed, that the longer you play a game, or the more times you go through it, quality degrades in play throughs. fable is a good example the first time through i had no popin, or wired graphics glitches, the second time through, occasionally people would not have heads, the third time through, audio glitches, heads not there and pop in of in game characters is a common ocuance 

Die shrinks and board remakes don't change the speed the hardware runs at or its functionality (if they're done right), they just lower energy requirements. The Cell and the Xenon still run at 3.2 GHz, it should be exactly the same thing from the perspective of the software.

Regarding your last paragraph, it may be the optical drive getting older, but that still wouldn't explain the framerate issues.

 

 

they do increase efficeny of the chip, and though the ratting will stay the same the perfomance per cycle will change, look at the powerpc 970, and 970fx for this. the 970fx is just a dye shrunk lowerpower 970, but the fx was about 15-20% faster at same clock speed. the 970 is also the family line that the 360 is based on, and the 970fx was used as the first dev kit for 360s.

 

i felt the last part might have to do with patches being pulled form the hard drvie, or some sort of weird save data curroption, i would have dismissed it, but it seems to effect alot of games, BF:BC, mercs 2, GTA IV, forza 2, crackdown, and rainbow six vegas 2 2 (but not vegas 1)



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Chrizum on 18 November 2008

Wow, I can't believe I forgot about Portal.

PORTAL.



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NJ5 on 18 November 2008

@goddog: If the performance per cycle gets changed, we're not talking about simple die shrinks but redesigned chips (no matter how slightly). This is by definition. There are plenty of die shrinking and clockrate increases going on in all CPU families all the time, but the performance per cycle doesn't change if the transistor pattern is identical.

 



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The Ghost of RubangB on 18 November 2008

Wii Sports.

It changed how games are played. Everything else this gen is just trying to play catch-up with Wii Sports, or maybe expanding on it. But Wii Sports was and is the revolution of the 7th generation.



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goddog on 18 November 2008
NJ5 said:

@goddog: If the performance per cycle gets changed, we're not talking about simple die shrinks but redesigned chips (no matter how slightly). This is by definition. There are plenty of die shrinking and clockrate increases going on in all CPU families all the time, but the performance per cycle doesn't change if the transistor pattern is identical.

 

 

from a pdf paper on the 970, and 970 fx

Early PowerPC 970 chips were constructed with a 130 um and silicon-oninsulator

(SOI) manufacturing process with a die size of 121 mm2 [1]. The 970FX,

essentially version 2 of this chip, was updated and manufactured using a SOI and strained

silicon 90um process with a die size of 65mm2 [2]. Both versions of chip contain

approximately 58 million transistors [2]. The processor contains 32 64 bit general

purpose registers, 32 64 bit floating point registers, 32 128 vector registers for use with

the Altivec instructions (a SIMD multimedia instruction set), and a number of special use

registers [3]. Clock speeds for the 970FX currently run at speeds up to 2.5 Ghz [2]. 

 

IBM PowerPC 970FX RISC Microprocessor User’s Manual, V1.5

 

The major change, was production on the chip, with lower power drain, and less heat generation. Now without changing chip design reducing heat can improve performance through prediction paths being less likely to err. on these guides there is no listing f a major change outside of the production method. I do not know if the change in production method could cause this. but the FX did see a speed enhancment over the original. 

on a sad side note none of the over 2ghz chips are still made, though the lower speed chips are. its kinda cool though that this family was a base for the PPE that was developed into both the cell, and the 360s chips, the highly customized powerpc chips that they are


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NJ5 on 18 November 2008

@goddog: Can you find me a single page with a definition of "die shrinking" which allows for the functionality of the circuit to change? I don't think you can, because that's called updating/redesigning/improving the circuit. "Prediction paths being less likely to err" does not happen just by making the transistors smaller, after all the transistors have the same logic no matter how small or big they are. A change like that would be a new revision of the CPU, like Intel often does within the same family (sometimes almost silently).

That document you pasted doesn't contradict what I said btw. It says the chip was "updated" which could well explain the difference in branch prediction.

 



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selnor on 18 November 2008

Technical achievement is hard tosay. Why? Because noone on this site knows the FULL workings of what the game tkaes to run it.

Based on best AI
Best visual clarity
Best on screen action
Best detail
Best Overall end product on your screen

It clearly goes to Gears 2 up to this current day.

Followed by Uncharted, MGS4 and then Gears 1 in that order.