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Forums - General - Do you believe in god, if not do you believe in something else?

Yes I believe in God.

The universe exists. Why? Stuff don't just appear from nuffin. Thus there has to be a creator behind it.



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Tispower1 said:
Soleron said:
Tispower1 said:
Soleron said:

 

To quote Michael Ruse, "The God Delusion makes me embarrassed to be an atheist". Frankly that book is a load of hot air, and trying to say religion is bad doesn't change whether God exists or not. Also if you're going to to play that game, I seem to remember Atheism brought us Hitler and Stalin who were obviously fine fellows (!). On top of that, Dawkins rants about Christianity, because he says that's what he knows best, yet seem to never have read the bible given at how wrong he is when he quote scripture!

Firstly, Dawkins shows how wrong Ruse is in the book. Of course, atheists are free to disagree with one another, unlike religious people.

I agree with your second point, but again Dawkins (and I) are against religion, not God. A God that doesn't tell us what to do is practically irreleveant and an academic question. Most people act based on religion, and that is the really bad thing worth arguing.

The "Hitler and Stalin" argument is ALSO dealt with by Dawkins. He says that 1) It is unclear whether Hitler was an atheist or Catholic - there are reliable quotes either way. 2) Stalin didn't kill people BECAUSE of Atheism - Atheism doesn't tell us anything about morality or what to do; it's just a position. On the other hand, people DO kill people due to religion (current Middle East/Terrorism situation; Northern Ireland; most African conflicts like Darfur).

Finally, the Bible and most other religious texts contradict themselves and are often vague/mistranslated so you can come up with any view you like and use it as "evidence". Just look at the number of very different Christian and Islamic denominations that all use the same passages to support wildly different things. Dawkins said that he would have used theological writings more seriously in the book "if there was any chance he could illuminate his central question with them."

 

 

 

 

Your 2 points seem to contradict each other, you say that Atheism doesn't teach us how to behave, yet don't seem to realise that nothing in the Bible holds up the Crusades or Northern Ireland as something that God would want to happen. Qu'ran on the other hand is a different matter.

Also you say Atheists disagree with each other, but 'Religious People' (care to be more specific) can't, then say they do disagree with each other, if you mean that there's lots of different types of Christianity, then yes I agree that is extremely unhelpful and is frankly a bad thing, hence why I don't belong to a particular 'denomination'.

 

 People need to get something straight. Atheism isn't anything, trying to group atheists together is arbitrary and insane. Hitler believed the sky is blue, I guess blue skyists gave us Hitler. Stalin didn't believe in Unicorns, I guess the anti-unicornists gave us Stalin. You see how ridiculous that sounds? Atheists don't act on Atheism the way theists act on religion. The fact that I do not believe in god does not dictate how I live my life, any more than the fact that you don't believe in Santa dictates yours. Atheists have no tenants, no orginizations, no rules, nothing that binds them together, or guides them as a unit other than that they are humans. There is no central dogma or text of the atheist. So you can't blame anything a person does on them being atheistic and more than you can blame it on their being alien-agnostic.

If people that worship god can't agree on who god hates (it's always the other guy) then that says something about them because god supposedly gave them a divine text, dogma and is guiding them. If atheists disagree with each other, it has nothing to do with their atheism because there is no atheistic dogma.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Tispower1 said:
puffy said:
There isn't enough evidence for the big bang, same as with the bible and any religion on the planet..

We do have enough evidence for evolution and just having completed my biology and genetics course I can tell you that 'the missing link' makes no sense if you've actually researched or learnt about the hominin fossils that have been found..

The problem is that scientists can't agree on the order due to more than one homo species existing at the same time in some cases..

With that aside I'd like you to answer me this..

The Homo genus evolved through speciation to have bigger brains, Homo sapiens have the largest frontal lobes which allows us to think logically, again medically proven, and only homo sapiens and homo neandathalians (spelling?) were actually the ones to bury their dead and cave paint and actually seek bonds with others of the opposite sex

What does a 'soul' have to do with your frontal lobes? Perhaps a soul is there and it gives us something but you can't say it gives us the will to marry etc

 

Evolution does not explain how life started. If anything origin of life science has become worse as it were over time, as stuff like the famous Miller experiment, scientists now agree is not accurate at all. Atheists have no idea how life started. An analogy I like is starting life is like putting protien in a test tube and shaking it to form a cell, it doesn't happen! If life is so easy to create, why haven't scientist been able to replicate the first replicating protiens?

As for this, ignorance doesn't equate wrong. Taking that approach turns god into what is called "God of the gaps". Any place science hasn't completely figured it out, that's where god acted. And then when science does figure it out, then god retreats to some other mystery and resides there as it's perpetrator. Abiogenesis is a young and fledgeling science that gets very little funding or attention. Give it time and god will retreat to some other unknown.

 



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Slimebeast said:
Yes I believe in God.

The universe exists. Why? Stuff don't just appear from nuffin. Thus there has to be a creator behind it.

 

And this This is a huge logical gap that never ceases to amaze me. If something can't come from nothing, then God must have made it. But then you just chase the question of origin backwards one more incredibly improbable step. Where did god come from? Oh, he came from nothing, rather he always existed. So god can always exist and that's not illogical, no no no. But the universe always existing, that's absurd! Something had to make it!

How is that not absurd? I'm going to take it a step further. A omnipotent super intelligent being can't just come from nothing, that's absurd. A duck made god. Now it makes sense.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Soleron said:
Jackson50 said:
Soleron said:

No, and no. Faith is irrational, and religion is an artifact of human culture and evolution (for an great explanation of this, read Richard Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' - despite the name it is a very reasoned and informative book).

I would not recommend The God Delusion. It offers nothing new in this debate. If you have heard the arguments for why God does and does not exist, then there is no point in reading his book. This whole debate on whether or not God exists will never find a resolution. At best, no one knows. 

 

You can't have understood his book then. His book is NOT primarily about arguing that God does not exist. He first argues that the rational position is not agnosticism ("no one knows") but atheism ("probably no God, with scientific conviction")*, and then, for two-thirds of the book, explains where religion comes from, why it is bad regardless of its truth and how we can solve the real underlying problem of irrationality.

*His main point is that, just because something can't be decided either way, that doesn't imply a 50% probability of it being true. You don't believe in fairies, but there isn't a 50% chance of fairies existing.

Seems like an illogical hypothisis from a scientific standard.

I mean... look at how scientists approach things.

They see something they don't understand and ask a question.

"Why"

Then they come up with a hypothisis for why... and keep with that hypothisis believing in it and expiermenting with it until they prove or disprove it.

It's not a matter of "Do pink faeries exist." or "Does god exist"

It's a question of "Why does everything exist."

God is simply the hypothisis to that answer. 

Just how something like Dark Energy was the hypothisis to why the universe is expanding, despite the fact there was no actual proof for such a thing.  Or Ether... which was a hypothsis for... I forget what it was a hypothisis for now... something with why light travels "slower" in some areas?

Until

A) Another hyptohisis is proven.

or

B) Your hypothisis is disproven.

It's just as likely as any other outcome scientifically.

 



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chapset said:

Personally I don't really believe in the god they talk about in the bible, it's too human made, but i do believe something else must be the reason why everything is so perfect, every little thing on earth and in the universe has a purpose, an utility. So it made me wonder what is beyond all this? sometimes i just say to my self: this is crazy talk, things are the way they are for no good reason it's just like that. And since gamers are the smartest being on earth and have a lot of time to waist maybe you guys and girls (not likely) could help me clear this.

That's basically called "Deism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Old Honest Abe Lincoln was a Deist.

Benjamin Franklin too i believe.



Kasz216 said:
chapset said:

Personally I don't really believe in the god they talk about in the bible, it's too human made, but i do believe something else must be the reason why everything is so perfect, every little thing on earth and in the universe has a purpose, an utility. So it made me wonder what is beyond all this? sometimes i just say to my self: this is crazy talk, things are the way they are for no good reason it's just like that. And since gamers are the smartest being on earth and have a lot of time to waist maybe you guys and girls (not likely) could help me clear this.

That's basically called "Deism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Old Honest Abe Lincoln was a Deist.

Benjamin Franklin too i believe.

 

Deism only came about back in the day (several centuries ago) so that scientific and political leaders could say they don't believe in god without them commiting social suicide.

The church would have ridiculued ANY scientist back then if he didn't admit to god, and hoenstly, would Lincoln have been even considered if he outright said he didn't believe in god? Same thing with Franklin, most people would have thorown him in the "godless damned" pile and not listened to any reason.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

help me out with this one

-Are you a spiritual being having a human experience or are you a human being having a spiritual experience?



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

chapset said:
help me out with this one

-Are you a spiritual being having a human experience or are you a human being having a spiritual experience?

 

I'm a human being without any spiritual aspect involved.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
chapset said:

Personally I don't really believe in the god they talk about in the bible, it's too human made, but i do believe something else must be the reason why everything is so perfect, every little thing on earth and in the universe has a purpose, an utility. So it made me wonder what is beyond all this? sometimes i just say to my self: this is crazy talk, things are the way they are for no good reason it's just like that. And since gamers are the smartest being on earth and have a lot of time to waist maybe you guys and girls (not likely) could help me clear this.

That's basically called "Deism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Old Honest Abe Lincoln was a Deist.

Benjamin Franklin too i believe.

 

Deism only came about back in the day (several centuries ago) so that scientific and political leaders could say they don't believe in god without them commiting social suicide.

The church would have ridiculued ANY scientist back then if he didn't admit to god, and hoenstly, would Lincoln have been even considered if he outright said he didn't believe in god? Same thing with Franklin, most people would have thorown him in the "godless damned" pile and not listened to any reason.

Really? 

Because from my research it looked like Deism was created because of the pointless struggles between different religions in an attempt to get them to all agree on the main points they had... basically the guy hated the church and wanted something better... i forget his name.  Some british lord.

Ah it's in the Wikipedia Edward Herbert Cherbury...

still looks similar to that after all the reforms and such.  So i'm going to say you have a bit of a misconception there.