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Forums - Sony - why most ps3 games are 720 instead of 1080p?????????????

Pristine20 said:
Can you really tell the difference between 720p and 1080p or you just like to see 1080p written on the box?

Yes. I was testing Fable 1 on my HTPCs new HD 4670. I went from 720P to 1080p with/without 4x MSAA and the difference was huge!

1:1 pixel mapping is definately noticeable, if you want a sharp image up close the PC is still where you should look for it.

 



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Dno said:
Squilliam said:
HappySqurriel said:

It comes down to GPU performance ...

In order to maintain the per-pixel image quality of a PS2 game that ran at 480i @30fps and display it at 1080p @60fps you would need (in the range of) 10 times the processing power. At the same time, the pixel shaders that produces the material effects that people associate with PS3/XBox 360 games also require a massive ammount of processing power, and it would take somewhere around 10 times the processing power of the PS2 to match these effects at a resolution of 480i @30fps.

The PS3 is a powerful system but it falls far short of being able to enhance the per-pixel image quality to the level people associate with "HD" games while at the same time increasing the resolution to 1080p and maintaining a decent framerate.

 

One word you forgot to mention is "Bandwidth"

You'd need a lot of it to run a game like Killzone 2 @ 1080p. Well a lot more than is currently available. Ditto could be said for AA, which is one of the reasons why the PS3 uses the texture bluring Quincunx AA (Kinda helps to defeat the purpose of higher resolution/uncompressed texturs when you blur them) whilst the 360 tends to use MSAA which is the preferred method for high image quality, but requires a lot more bandwidth.

 

i understand you have to use tips and tricks to make it 1080p but to say system A can not do it when its done it MORE then the others is foolish. thats all im trying to say.

 

Not really, If the PS3 could potentially run KZ2 at 1080p with a steady 30FPS I would slap Sony and Guerilla games in that order for incompetence. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you'll like the tradeoffs for doing it.

 



Tease.

Squilliam said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
HappySqurriel said:

It comes down to GPU performance ...

In order to maintain the per-pixel image quality of a PS2 game that ran at 480i @30fps and display it at 1080p @60fps you would need (in the range of) 10 times the processing power. At the same time, the pixel shaders that produces the material effects that people associate with PS3/XBox 360 games also require a massive ammount of processing power, and it would take somewhere around 10 times the processing power of the PS2 to match these effects at a resolution of 480i @30fps.

The PS3 is a powerful system but it falls far short of being able to enhance the per-pixel image quality to the level people associate with "HD" games while at the same time increasing the resolution to 1080p and maintaining a decent framerate.

 

One word you forgot to mention is "Bandwidth"

You'd need a lot of it to run a game like Killzone 2 @ 1080p. Well a lot more than is currently available. Ditto could be said for AA, which is one of the reasons why the PS3 uses the texture bluring Quincunx AA (Kinda helps to defeat the purpose of higher resolution/uncompressed texturs when you blur them) whilst the 360 tends to use MSAA which is the preferred method for high image quality, but requires a lot more bandwidth.

 

i understand you have to use tips and tricks to make it 1080p but to say system A can not do it when its done it MORE then the others is foolish. thats all im trying to say.

 

Not really, If the PS3 could potentially run KZ2 at 1080p with a steady 30FPS I would slap Sony and Guerilla games in that order for incompetence. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you'll like the tradeoffs for doing it.

 

Same can be said for 360.

i never said u can run everygame at 1080p i said that both systems can RUN in 1080p and ps3 has run it in more games. thats what im trying to say.

 Edit: and of course you picked prolly the hardest most complex game on the ps3 to run in 1080p to prove you point. LOL

Is gears native 1080p? i dont think it is. neither is fable 2.

But huge games like White knight story is native 1080p so if GT5 and  God of war 3 (rumored). These are huge games that are 1080p.

These are also NEW games. The power of the ps3 is not even tapped yet. i mean if WKS is 1080p then the ps3 can run a good sized 1080p game. You can not deny that. No matter what tricks you have to do.

Everygame has to drop some things to do other things so just because you have to drop things doesnt mean game over lol.



Dno said:
Squilliam said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
HappySqurriel said:

It comes down to GPU performance ...

In order to maintain the per-pixel image quality of a PS2 game that ran at 480i @30fps and display it at 1080p @60fps you would need (in the range of) 10 times the processing power. At the same time, the pixel shaders that produces the material effects that people associate with PS3/XBox 360 games also require a massive ammount of processing power, and it would take somewhere around 10 times the processing power of the PS2 to match these effects at a resolution of 480i @30fps.

The PS3 is a powerful system but it falls far short of being able to enhance the per-pixel image quality to the level people associate with "HD" games while at the same time increasing the resolution to 1080p and maintaining a decent framerate.

 

One word you forgot to mention is "Bandwidth"

You'd need a lot of it to run a game like Killzone 2 @ 1080p. Well a lot more than is currently available. Ditto could be said for AA, which is one of the reasons why the PS3 uses the texture bluring Quincunx AA (Kinda helps to defeat the purpose of higher resolution/uncompressed texturs when you blur them) whilst the 360 tends to use MSAA which is the preferred method for high image quality, but requires a lot more bandwidth.

 

i understand you have to use tips and tricks to make it 1080p but to say system A can not do it when its done it MORE then the others is foolish. thats all im trying to say.

 

Not really, If the PS3 could potentially run KZ2 at 1080p with a steady 30FPS I would slap Sony and Guerilla games in that order for incompetence. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you'll like the tradeoffs for doing it.

 

Same can be said for 360.

i never said u can run everygame at 1080p i said that both systems can RUN in 1080p and ps3 has run it in more games. thats what im trying to say.

 

That was not the topic, though. The OP asked why so few PS3 games are 1080p. That's a perception thing. No-one is complaining about 360 games not being 1080p, because Microsoft didn't promise that.

A lot of people that bought a PS3 genuinly believed they would see most games in 1080p, because Sony more or less promised that. No-one is arguing that PS3 doesn't have more games that run in 1080 than 360. 



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BengaBenga said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
HappySqurriel said:

It comes down to GPU performance ...

In order to maintain the per-pixel image quality of a PS2 game that ran at 480i @30fps and display it at 1080p @60fps you would need (in the range of) 10 times the processing power. At the same time, the pixel shaders that produces the material effects that people associate with PS3/XBox 360 games also require a massive ammount of processing power, and it would take somewhere around 10 times the processing power of the PS2 to match these effects at a resolution of 480i @30fps.

The PS3 is a powerful system but it falls far short of being able to enhance the per-pixel image quality to the level people associate with "HD" games while at the same time increasing the resolution to 1080p and maintaining a decent framerate.

 

One word you forgot to mention is "Bandwidth"

You'd need a lot of it to run a game like Killzone 2 @ 1080p. Well a lot more than is currently available. Ditto could be said for AA, which is one of the reasons why the PS3 uses the texture bluring Quincunx AA (Kinda helps to defeat the purpose of higher resolution/uncompressed texturs when you blur them) whilst the 360 tends to use MSAA which is the preferred method for high image quality, but requires a lot more bandwidth.

 

i understand you have to use tips and tricks to make it 1080p but to say system A can not do it when its done it MORE then the others is foolish. thats all im trying to say.

 

Not really, If the PS3 could potentially run KZ2 at 1080p with a steady 30FPS I would slap Sony and Guerilla games in that order for incompetence. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you'll like the tradeoffs for doing it.

 

Same can be said for 360.

i never said u can run everygame at 1080p i said that both systems can RUN in 1080p and ps3 has run it in more games. thats what im trying to say.

 

That was not the topic, though. The OP asked why so few PS3 games are 1080p. That's a perception thing. No-one is complaining about 360 games not being 1080p, because Microsoft didn't promise that.

A lot of people that bought a PS3 genuinly believed they would see most games in 1080p, because Sony more or less promised that. No-one is arguing that PS3 doesn't have more games that run in 1080 than 360. 

ok so ps3 has THE MOST 1080p games on the market and thats a bad thing?

Then lemme ask some questions:

Why isnt gears 60 players online?

Why isnt halo 1080p?

Why is GT5 1080p and not forza?

Why is little big planet 720p?

Here is the answer

Because some devs had a choice to spend time on gameplay or 1080p or online features. They CHOOSE to make the games that way and in MOST cases (not all) it has nuthin to do with the system they created it on.

So in short (to answer the op) the devs are lazy and the ps3 is hard to make games for so they made a choice not to make it in 1080p. its not that the ps3 (or 360) can not handle it because there are games that prove that they can.

 



Dno said:
BengaBenga said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
HappySqurriel said:

It comes down to GPU performance ...

In order to maintain the per-pixel image quality of a PS2 game that ran at 480i @30fps and display it at 1080p @60fps you would need (in the range of) 10 times the processing power. At the same time, the pixel shaders that produces the material effects that people associate with PS3/XBox 360 games also require a massive ammount of processing power, and it would take somewhere around 10 times the processing power of the PS2 to match these effects at a resolution of 480i @30fps.

The PS3 is a powerful system but it falls far short of being able to enhance the per-pixel image quality to the level people associate with "HD" games while at the same time increasing the resolution to 1080p and maintaining a decent framerate.

 

One word you forgot to mention is "Bandwidth"

You'd need a lot of it to run a game like Killzone 2 @ 1080p. Well a lot more than is currently available. Ditto could be said for AA, which is one of the reasons why the PS3 uses the texture bluring Quincunx AA (Kinda helps to defeat the purpose of higher resolution/uncompressed texturs when you blur them) whilst the 360 tends to use MSAA which is the preferred method for high image quality, but requires a lot more bandwidth.

 

i understand you have to use tips and tricks to make it 1080p but to say system A can not do it when its done it MORE then the others is foolish. thats all im trying to say.

 

Not really, If the PS3 could potentially run KZ2 at 1080p with a steady 30FPS I would slap Sony and Guerilla games in that order for incompetence. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you'll like the tradeoffs for doing it.

 

Same can be said for 360.

i never said u can run everygame at 1080p i said that both systems can RUN in 1080p and ps3 has run it in more games. thats what im trying to say.

 

That was not the topic, though. The OP asked why so few PS3 games are 1080p. That's a perception thing. No-one is complaining about 360 games not being 1080p, because Microsoft didn't promise that.

A lot of people that bought a PS3 genuinly believed they would see most games in 1080p, because Sony more or less promised that. No-one is arguing that PS3 doesn't have more games that run in 1080 than 360. 

ok so ps3 has THE MOST 1080p games on the market and thats a bad thing?

Then lemme ask some questions:

Why isnt gears 60 players online?

Why isnt halo 1080p?

Why is GT5 1080p and not forza?

Why is little big planet 720p?

Here is the answer

Because some devs had a choice to spend time on gameplay or 1080p or online features. They CHOOSE to make the games that way and in MOST cases (not all) it has nuthin to do with the system they created it on.

So in short (to answer the op) the devs are lazy and the ps3 is hard to make games for so they made a choice not to make it in 1080p. its not that the ps3 (or 360) can not handle it because there are games that prove that they can.

 

You're really becoming annoying now. Stop playing the misunderstood fanboy. NO-ONE said having more 1080p games is a bad thing. It also has nothing to do with lazy devs, since MGS4 is not 1080p, and that's hardly a lazy effort. PS3 can't handle it, which is fine, but Sony oversold its capacities.

The games that are 1080p use less of the hardware for other things.

 




Dno said:

ok so ps3 has THE MOST 1080p games on the market and thats a bad thing?

Then lemme ask some questions:

Why isnt gears 60 players online?

Why isnt halo 1080p?

Why is GT5 1080p and not forza?

Why is little big planet 720p?

Here is the answer

Because some devs had a choice to spend time on gameplay or 1080p or online features. They CHOOSE to make the games that way and in MOST cases (not all) it has nuthin to do with the system they created it on.

So in short (to answer the op) the devs are lazy and the ps3 is hard to make games for so they made a choice not to make it in 1080p. its not that the ps3 (or 360) can not handle it because there are games that prove that they can.

 

The issue is choose, as you said it yourself. PS3 can't run everything the devs would want it to, so they are forced to do tradeoffs between resolution/polycount/effects/framerate etc. So, in order to get the best detail out of it, the devs take the route of lower resotion, since it's the least noticeable tradeoff. CoD4 runs on 600p, GTA4 620p etc. Even one of Sonys own flagships, GT5, isn't running on standard 1080p, since i'd recall it has resolution of 1280x1080.

And the reason why people see this as a problem, is because Sony promised "full HD" for people, which of course would be possible, but then it would lose graphically to 720p games on 360 (and M$ never promised more than 720p resolution).



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

LACK of optimization.



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

Neither the PS3 or 360 are really capable of running complex games at 1080p. You see some PSN titles at 1080p, or some more advanced titles which fit nicely into the "easy to render" bucket running at 1080p (space games, some racing games, etc.). Otherwise it'll be the next gen before we see GPUs capable of rendering 1920x1080 at decent framerates.

You don't even see many high-end PC graphics cards rendering at 30 fps at that resolution for complicated games, let alone 60fps. The fact that some games, like WipEout HD, run at 60 fps, and at 1080p, at all is downright phenominal, given the ages of the PS3 and 360s GPUs.

 

Sony advertized that the PS3 was capable of running games at 1080p at launch, which was, and is, true.  The 360, at launch, didn't support HDMI, and thus could not support 1080p gaming in any regard.  Sony never claimed that "all" or "lots" of games would run at 1080p... just that it was possible.  And frankly, the PS3 has more 1080p games than I would expect -- it certainly has a lot more than the 360 does.