By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - The Grieving McCain-Voters Thread

akuma587 on 05 November 2008
mrstickball said:
akuma587 said:
Obama isn't advocating socialized medicine, just FYI.

Care to explain Obama's plan to me then? Because this is what I get from his own website (BarakObama.com/healthcarefullplan.pdf):

No quotes due to improper formatting:

The Obama-Biden plan both builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans
continue to rely upon, and leaves Medicare intact for older and disabled Americans. Under the Obama-Biden
plan, Americans will be able to maintain their current coverage, have access to new affordable options, and see
the quality of their health care improve and their costs go down. The Obama-Biden plan provides new
affordable health insurance options by: (1) guaranteeing eligibility for all health insurance plans;

(2) creating a
National Health Insurance Exchange to help Americans and businesses purchase private health insurance;

(3)
providing new tax credits to families who can’t afford health insurance and to small businesses with a new
Small Business Health Tax Credit;

(4) requiring all large employers to contribute towards health coverage for
their employees or towards the cost of the public plan;

(5) requiring all children have health care coverage; (5)
expanding eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs;

and (6) allowing flexibility for state health reform plans.

Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through the Federal
Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the program through which Members of Congress get
their own health care. Plans will include coverage of all essential medical services, including preventive,
maternity and mental health care.

(4) EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION. Large employers that do not offer meaningful coverage or make a meaningful
contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a
percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small businesses will be exempt from this
requirement.

(6) EXPANSION OF MEDICAID AND SCHIP. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will expand eligibility for the
Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net
function.

 

Obama veils it as a "National Healthcare Exchange" but then says that such coverage will go from job to job...How would that be the case unless it was universal coverage? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there's a national plan, that means that it invovles more socialism. Maybe not one-size-fits-all, but it's the beginning of it.

1) Contribute does not mean pay for the healthcare plan.  It doesn't say that the employers will have to pay for their employees healthcare, it says they will have to contribute.

2) Insurance for children is ludicrously cheap.  And it will also end up saving money in terms of healthcare cost because poorer families won't have to go to the emergency room (which they often do) for basic medical care.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Around the Network
akuma587 on 05 November 2008
rocketpig said:
akuma587 said:
Cueil said:
akuma587 said:

Aren't we better off spending our money on healthcare than the war in Iraq?  I mean Republicans have had no problem shipping American tax dollars abroad, why not keep some of them here?  Its not like healthcare is like passing out free TV's or something to everybody, it is something that people should be able to access regardless of how rich or poor they are.

 

 

we have socialized heath care... it's used by Veterans... if you google that I'm sure you'll find the countless horror stories.  This county doesn't need socialized health care... it needs someone to start kicking some asses up at these companies that keep screwing us over... insurance and pharmisudicals(sp?)

Which is why the current healthcare system will remain relatively intact.  The only thing that will change is that insurance companies won't be able to price gouge people and discriminate in who they offer coverage to.

It's a fine line Obama is trying to walk and frankly, I think it's going to fail.

Stop price-gouging? Then expect diminished care. More regulation? Expect companies to provide the absolute bare minimum, even more than they do now. If the going gets really rough, expect some companies to bow out of the business entirely, straining those who are left even more.

It's a tough situation and there's no easy solution. I know I'll be watching intently to see how Obama deals with the situation.

 

Actually the amount of people not buying health insurance is hurting people as much as the price gouging.  A lot of people have dropped their health insurance because they can't afford it or think that they are healthy enough that they don't need it.  That is money that is being taken out of the system that raises costs for everyone else.  If everyone, including healthy people, were buying coverage, then the costs would be spread out across a more diverse and overall healthier group of individuals.

Its not necessarily that there is more regulation being advocated, but that many of the favorable regulations already in place that give an unreasonable degree of favoritism to insurance companies are going to be modified or done away with.

People automatically assume that regulations are against the companies in a sector of the market, which is blatantly untrue.  There are many regulations in place that are anti-consumer and pro-health insurance provider.  Regulations cut both ways, they can, and in many cases do, hurt consumers rather than the companies within that market.  But for whatever reason people who are advocates of deregulation often ignore this.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

rocketpig on 05 November 2008

Akuma, I'm not against something being done about the healthcare industry. It's badly needed IMO. I just don't know if Obama's route is the correct one. Honestly, I don't know if it's the wrong one, either.

I'm just going to take a wait and see approach to this. The first 6 months of Obama's presidency will be extremely telling. I'm just praying that he doesn't take advantage of this and swing way left, alienating the Republican base of Congress. Some real work can be done if he maintains this "uniter" approach, now let's see if he does it.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

Thatmax on 05 November 2008

Im glad that Obama was elected, but it was for the wrong reasons imo



akuma587 on 05 November 2008
rocketpig said:
Akuma, I'm not against something being done about the healthcare industry. It's badly needed IMO. I just don't know if Obama's route is the correct one. Honestly, I don't know if it's the wrong one, either.

I'm just going to take a wait and see approach to this. The first 6 months of Obama's presidency will be extremely telling. I'm just praying that he doesn't take advantage of this and swing way left, alienating the Republican base of Congress. Some real work can be done if he maintains this "uniter" approach, now let's see if he does it.

That's reasonable.  I agree that the situation is not an easy one to fix, and that any action taken to fix it should be done very cautiously.  But the fact remains that it needs to be fixed.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Around the Network
appolose on 05 November 2008

Keep going, guys, this makes me feel better :)



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz
mrstickball on 05 November 2008

appolose - Don't worry, things won't be as bad as the doomsayers think they will.

Take it from someone that is *litterally* worried about family members dying of heart attacks due to the election, things won't be as bad as some worry.

As much as this is (what I believe) the worst possible outcome for conservative values and smaller government, the new government will be walking a tight rope.

I've been telling everyone this: We have 2 options for the new Obama government:

1) They actually fix things and America gets better. They do this by bridging the gap(s), and actually do *heal the nation*. Left-leaning government ends up going moderate, everyone wins.

2) Obama does what we all fear, and screws up the country. In 2 years, we'll have a new senate, and voters can easily make Obama's Democratic government pay, and have a moderate/right senate. This would give BHO a lame duck congress/senate. 4 years he's out of office.

So either way, it won't be as bad. We survived under Clinton (albeit with a Republican congress/senate), but as much as we can fearmonger, America has survived for 200+ years, and will continue to do such. Even if I hate European socialistic politics, they at least work somewhat, and it's still a livable country.

It's like Mike Huckabee said in the Regent University debate "It won't be the end of the world. It's just going to recover a lot more slowly than if McCain was president".

Huckabee/Palin 2012 :)



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Dogs Rule on 05 November 2008

The tragic sequel to "nailing Paylin" is now available on some flash sites.



akuma587 on 05 November 2008

2012 will be the tragic sequel to the Republican Party's defeat in 2008 if Palin is at the head of the ticket.

I honestly don't think Huckabee is a viable national candidate either. I think the Republican Party is going to have to turn more to the Left before it is relevant again, or at least get back to its fiscally conservative roots.

Maybe Giuliani or Fred Thompson, if they can get their act together. McCain is out, he'll just be too old. Any other good potential candidates you guys can think of?



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

SnesTea on 05 November 2008

Mitt Romney^^