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Forums - General Discussion - The sad state of the US people.

Athletes aren't paid millions of dollars to score points. Athletes are paid to sell tickets. A stadium has x-number of seats, if he sells them (makes people feel tickets are worth the price) he is worth it and if he doesn't then he cut. Of course you could argue that they love what they do, so I will move on to lawyers.

Nobody loves pouring over law books and legal cases. You are forgetting the lawyers who handle adoption, prosecution, defense of the innocent, defense from a corrupt government, judges, counselors of law, arbitrators, etc. Everyone deserves a defense. Everyone deserves a fair legal system that follows rules.

There's a difference between paying for more because they are in a society to earn more, but what you're saying is ridiculous and jealous. You just hate people who have more than you.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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Commando said:
What I am concerned about, is every other infraction against the constitution that nobody cares about and/or is in full support of.

What people need to realize is that in the United States we have the unaliable right to challenge our government via Petition and if that doesn't work, Violent Usurption. Yet no one cares and we let the government regulate our ownership/use of arms. What angers me is that nowdays the average American considers protest to be "Anti-American" and Fascism to be patriotic.

 

I agree. People have lost there way, and most don't care.

I remember seeing a female politician in Californian who wanted to ban automatic weapons hold up an AK47, and say "no one needs this to hunt a deer". She got an standing ovation.

The constitution does not give me the right to bare arms so I can hunt. I don't need it to kill deer. I need it to kill her if need be, or to kill any one in government who is "unjust". For that, I need the most powerful gun I can get. We are given the right to bare arms so we can uprise against an unjust government. It was put into place to keep government in line. When the people who we were given that right to protect us from, stand right in front of us and say "I want to take that away from you", and we cheer, something is very wrong in this country.

Oh, and I don't own a gun, nor do I wish harm on anyone. I just want to right to defend myself against my government.

 

Now as for some of the things here. I will not address them all individually, I will just make some blanket statements.

 

  • I don't care what color or what name Obama has. I just care that his is a socialist, and I hate his politics.
  • I gave over $2,000 in charities last year, and spent several days volunteering for "Habitat for Humanity". Far more then most here. To somehow claim that I want people do die in the streets because I find it unconstitutional is 100% inaccurate, and offensive. Anyone who knows me, knows otherwise.
  • I make far less then $250,000 a year, so it's not my demographic I am fighting for. I am not black, so when I fight for there civil rights, I am not in that group either. I care about all americans equally.
  • Every wealthy person did not become so by putting down the working class. Most became so from the working class.
  • Every corporation is not evil.
EDIT: I just re-read this, and it sounds like I feel I have the right to kill anyone who is unjust in government. That is not what I mean. What I mean is when Government as a whole becomes unjust, and we must rebel against it, I am given the right to own the tools to do so.

 



Wow, so many interesting points. It could be real easy to go into a long post, I'll spare you all though. A few thoughts -

1-America was based on equality. If one man, regardless of race or economic status, is taxed any differently than another, then the equality is lost and the American way has died.

2-No one, and I mean NO ONE, is guaranteed the right to live. Survival is dependent on how you proceed in the world. Unless someone wants to help you out of their own good nature, NO ONE is required to. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can succeed.

3-The end product of a worker's work is set at a value by society. By going and paying $100 for a ticket to a baseball game, you are agreeing to that value. When society shuns a product for being to expensive, the price will lower. Simple supply/demand economics. If you don't like these people making so much money, stop supporting them.

4-Citizens of the US already give to support many programs via their current taxes. Asking for more beyond that is selfish. Yet, their are still many charities and grants, etc.

5-The stereotype mentioned before, the Chris Rock reference, worked well 20 years ago. There are grants based specifically on minority / race status. Many grants are available for government funding for starting your own business if you are female or of African-American descent. None exist on the premise of being a white male. The issue is that many people looking for tuition money or grants don't research well enough or don't know where to look. (I just directed a friend of mine to getting college money because he didn't think he qualified for financial aid, without him having done research)



Commando said:
What I am concerned about, is every other infraction against the constitution that nobody cares about and/or is in full support of.

What people need to realize is that in the United States we have the unaliable right to challenge our government via Petition

Exactly

It is the DUTY of Americans to reform the government should it fail the populace. I'd say ours failed us outright, on almost every angle.



Man you people are so overly dramatic, I don't get how you're all so angry.

@Mafoo saying things like "Oh, and I don't own a gun, nor do I wish harm on anyone. I just want to right to defend myself against my government." just makes you sound like a psycho. The government is not out to get you and you don't need some constitutional right to go shoot them up if you consider them unjust.

@bardicverse, don't fool yourself into thinking that America was founded upon equality. It took nearly 100 years to abolish slavery, 150 to provide women the ability to vote and still have a large wage gap compared to men. Gay people still can't get married. You can't be president unless you're born an American. Sure compared to some countries, this is way better, but don't lift that stiff upper lip claiming America is this glorious land of freedoms and equality.



The only teeth strong enough to eat other teeth.

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SuperDave said:

@Mafoo saying things like "Oh, and I don't own a gun, nor do I wish harm on anyone. I just want to right to defend myself against my government." just makes you sound like a psycho. The government is not out to get you and you don't need some constitutional right to go shoot them up if you consider them unjust.

 

4,000 years of history disagrees with you. Unless you think people today or somehow more moral then they were 300 years ago, I have to disagree with you. Even if you believe in evolution (and I do by the way), most people agree that man has not changed in 30,000 years. Why all the sudden, after thousands of governments run by man have failed due to evil and corruption, do you think it won't?

This country was constructed in a way to protect it's people from the men and woman in power. They knew that if you give too much power to men, they will corrupt the government for there own good.

It's been happening for years, and the more control we put in the hands of government, the more corrupt it will get.

I am not sure why believing the one common factor about all governments that have ever existed applies to ours, makes me sound like a psycho. 



I have two comments:

1- Reality trumps ideology. I used to be more idealistic when I was young, but I came to learn that this world is too imperfect and complex for ideology alone to guide us.

2- Doesn't the US already have a progressive tax system? From what I read, it does. This means "redistribution of wealth" is already happening. What is there to be so revolted about here?

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:

I have two comments:

1- Reality trumps ideology. I used to be more idealistic when I was young, but I came to learn that this world is too imperfect and complex for ideology alone to guide us.

2- Doesn't the US already have a progressive tax system? From what I read, it does. This means "redistribution of wealth" is already happening. What is there to be so revolted about here?

 

Bingo. It's been like this for decades. (during WWII the income tax rate for the top incomes was an astounding 91%)

Still, the realmafoo is definitely right about this (raising it even more) not being a good thing. If you knew that if you got rich, the government would just take your money, why would you bother going through all the work to become rich? In other words, taking a too large percentage of the rich's money will inevitably stifle ambition and by extension bring the nation to its knees. This is exactly what happened in the Soviet Union btw.

Also, just a comment. While it is true that the top whatever-percent of the income earners get a majority of the income in this nation, people often ignore the converse fact: they also pay the majority of the nation's takes:

From wiki:

"the top 0.1% of taxpayers by income pay 17.4% of federal income taxes (earning 9.1% of the income), the top 1% with gross income of $328,049 or more pay 36.9% (earning 19%), the top 5% with gross income of $137,056 or more pay 57.1% (earning 33.4%), and the bottom 50% with gross income of $30,122 or less pay 3.3% (earning 13.4%).

My main point here: the top .1% of income earners earn 9.1% of the national income, yet they pay 17.4% of the income tax revenue. This means they are currently paying twice their fair share. Also, the bottom 50% earn 13.4% of the national income, yet they pay 3.3% of income taxes. (1/4 their fair share) What more do you want from the rich? They are already making it possible for the poor to pay 1/4 what their fair share is.

Conclusion: While I have no problem with the rich paying more than their fair share beause, as has been said, they can afford it, you have to very careful not to make the disparity in tax rates too great or you will risk collapsing your economy a la the Soviet Union in the '80s.

 



Not trying to be a fanboy. Of course, it's hard when you own the best console eve... dang it

the problem with trickle down economy is two fold mr mccain.

Rich people do not go out and buy ford. They buy peuget, they buy japanese airplanes, they pay swedish designers for house blueprints and then pay italian sculptors to work the marble.

This money is not trickling down in any shape or form. And while yes this may be anecdotal, I feel that if I were super rich I wouldn't go out of my way to buy american products.

Poor people on the other hand pay 100% of there money into american pockets. They buy buy Nike, they buy Kmart, they buy milk, and food, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.
Most of this money goes back into the economy, so yes although they only pay 3% of the tax income, they keep the companies in business, they contribute to state income (cigarette tax@



TheRealMafoo said:

I was thinking about last nights debate a little, and it saddened me a great deal.

A little history about the US for those in other countries, and those living here that need a refresher.

America is supposed to be the land of the free. The constitution gives us these freedoms. What does being free mean? In the context of the constitution, it is the opposite of indentured. Indentured means to be in the service of others. For example, a peasant must work for his king. In the US, the government is supposed to protect you from being in the service of others. Your time is your time.

Now, this does not mean you don't pay taxes, it just means that the taxes you must pay are to service the country for your good. The money (time) the government takes from you is to support you. I have no problem with that.

What happened last night troubled me a great deal. McCain attacked Obama with a claim that he want's to "spread the wealth". A very socialistic concept. When it was time for Obama to respond, he did a very surprising thing. he did not refute it, he agreed with it. He said the rich can afford it.

Never in american history have I seen a candidate publicly announce that redistribution of wealth was part of there platform. When you take money (someone's time) from one group of people, for the sole purpose of giving it to another, you make that group indentured servants. This goes against everything the constitution stands for. The most liberal Democrat of 30 years ago would have never wanted this. They would have wanted you to pay more taxes, so you can get more benefit from the government, not to take it away from you and give it to someone else. John F. Kennedy would have been disgusted by what's happening today.

I am not that concerned about Obama. What I am concerned about, is that no one cares that he said it. This country does not care that a segment of it is having there freedoms taken away. There seems to be a majority population that feels taking money from one group of people, solely for the betterment of another is OK.

This is this single biggest issue that our forefathers created the United States to combat, and no one cares to protect it anymore.

It's a very saddening reality.

thanks,

I agree with you. 

Hopefully Obama will not go through with this when he becomes the president or we will go through some tough times.

It's hard for me to believe that we are going back to the Carter days when the corporate tax was close to 70%.  It did nothing for our economy. 

Reagan lowered it to around 30% and the economy rebounded.

Maybe we need to go through it again so that the new generation will learn.