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Forums - Gaming Discussion - AMAZING new LAIR sreeens !!!!! OMFG

shams on 25 February 2007

Looks real average to me. We'll see how the game goes once its out...



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fooflexible on 25 February 2007

Yeah it's just silly, if you look at a game like Just Cause on the 360 is looks gorgoeus, amazing draw distance, water, sunsets, even if it could technically look better on the ps3, it really wouldn't make much of a difference. And it's silly to bring up developers saying a game is only possible on a certain system, I could say Wii Sports is only possible on the Wii too for that matter. The point is every system has it's own little magic and when making an exclusive title for it your going to try to make the most of that, otherwise you have to explain why your not making the game for other systems. And the bottom line is my absolute favorite games of all time weren't usually the prettiest or technically advanced in the graphics department, so a game being such doesn't mean much to me. Like that old Jurassic Park game for the PC it looked amazing at the time and had a revolutionary physics engine where you could pick up anything knock anything down use anything as a weapon, and in the end after an hour of getting over the wow factor of it all, I realized the game is aweful. Not say Lair is going to be anything but great, but if it is great, it won't be the quantity of polygons that makes it such.



vanguardian1 on 25 February 2007

Graphically, the PS3 power-wise is capable of outdoing the 360, but I feel the difference won't be as substantial as some people are hoping. Depending on how the games are designed and implemented, the 360's ram configuration can utilize higher quality textures than the PS3 (whereas the PS3's is locked at 256mb), but the PS3 can run more visual effects on those same textures than the 360 due to it's faster speeds.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

Kwaad on 25 February 2007

Yulegoat said: It's possible to make as great water for 360 games too. That's a matter of design, not horsepower, when we're talking about 360/PS3 level of hardware. I find it absurd that some people think 97,6% real looking water is so much better than 97,2% real. As the differences are becoming smaller and smaller, the fight is becoming funnier and funnier. 360/PS3 hardware already makes it possible to make games just about as real looking as the artists can produce. What will you fight over in the next generation? The horsepowers won't soon mean anything, because both (PS4 and Xbox720) will have enough even for the graphic whores.
I laugh at all of you saying anything bad about LAIR. Ok, I'm done laughing about that. One thing really quick. Water on the 360 has a lovely water effect that uses quite a bit of power, but NOTHING compared to 'real' water. When I say 'real' water I mean rendred useing polygons VS whatever that water effect. The reason it hasnt been done in the past useing full 3D polygons, is because of the sheer ammount of power it takes to make it not look horrible. (flat water, with a good animated texture looks alot better than Crappy 3D water, True 3D water blows everything out of the water... But it shreds modern PC processors. I'd say only 360 and PS3 are capable of it. Yet the PS3 uses (at most) 1/7th of it's power while the 360 would be using 1/3rd or at best 1/6th.



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

your mother on 26 February 2007

Kwaad said: Yulegoat said: Water on the 360 has a lovely water effect that uses quite a bit of power, but NOTHING compared to 'real' water. When I say 'real' water I mean rendred useing polygons VS whatever that water effect. The reason it hasnt been done in the past useing full 3D polygons, is because of the sheer ammount of power it takes to make it not look horrible. (flat water, with a good animated texture looks alot better than Crappy 3D water, True 3D water blows everything out of the water... But it shreds modern PC processors. I'd say only 360 and PS3 are capable of it. Yet the PS3 uses (at most) 1/7th of it's power while the 360 would be using 1/3rd or at best 1/6th.
Waverace 64, on the piss-shit underpowered (by today's standards) N64 utilized polygons for their water. The water even reacted according to how you rode your jetski. How good water looks has nothing to do directly with the capabilities of the machine. Different games place different emphasis on different aspects of the game to make them shine. It's not like Simcity cannot make 3D polygons for their water. Sure they can, but what's the point? It's a city-building sim. Having "cool" water does little, if anything, for the gameplay, not to mention the fact that it would take part of the computer's overhead to calculate these damn "real" water effects instead of, you know, calculating sims' AI, which is what the game really is about. Games like Waverace used 3D polygons to great effect, and I bet that the method the developers used to create the water surfaces for Waverace consumed at least 1/2 of the N64's overall processing overhead, but for a game that is based on "racing on waves" this approach not only makes a lot of sense, but is actually required. Of course, that leaves precious little for other "overhead", like higher texture sizes or poly counts on the in-game models. As if games like RFOM, UT3 and GOW (God or Gears, take your pick) need "real" water for the gameplay to shine and for you to truly immerse yourself in the game. I've never heard anyone poo-poo UT2K4 because "the water is nothing more than two tileable textures looping in a criss-crossing pattern - that looks like shit and I am so disappointed with Unreal!" Having said that, if these games can actually get "real" water (as you call it, even though I cannot ever envision my LCD TV getting wet by playing a game) without taking away the other visuals (e.g. dynamic grass & weather) while making the gameplay work around these elements, then we're talking. Until then, however, none of this advanced technology means shit. Painkiller had all these cool destructible environments, but it wasn't a gameplay element and destroying things didn't help or hurt you; in other words, nice eye candy that did squat for gameplay. Your "1/7th, 1/3rd and 1/6th" arguments, and most of all, about "simulated" vs "real" water make about 1/223,348,382,865 sense.



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washimul on 26 February 2007

your mother said: Kwaad said: Yulegoat said: Water on the 360 has a lovely water effect that uses quite a bit of power, but NOTHING compared to 'real' water. When I say 'real' water I mean rendred useing polygons VS whatever that water effect. The reason it hasnt been done in the past useing full 3D polygons, is because of the sheer ammount of power it takes to make it not look horrible. (flat water, with a good animated texture looks alot better than Crappy 3D water, True 3D water blows everything out of the water... But it shreds modern PC processors. I'd say only 360 and PS3 are capable of it. Yet the PS3 uses (at most) 1/7th of it's power while the 360 would be using 1/3rd or at best 1/6th. Waverace 64, on the piss-shit underpowered (by today's standards) N64 utilized polygons for their water. The water even reacted according to how you rode your jetski. How good water looks has nothing to do directly with the capabilities of the machine. Different games place different emphasis on different aspects of the game to make them shine. It's not like Simcity cannot make 3D polygons for their water. Sure they can, but what's the point? It's a city-building sim. Having "cool" water does little, if anything, for the gameplay, not to mention the fact that it would take part of the computer's overhead to calculate these damn "real" water effects instead of, you know, calculating sims' AI, which is what the game really is about. Games like Waverace used 3D polygons to great effect, and I bet that the method the developers used to create the water surfaces for Waverace consumed at least 1/2 of the N64's overall processing overhead, but for a game that is based on "racing on waves" this approach not only makes a lot of sense, but is actually required. Of course, that leaves precious little for other "overhead", like higher texture sizes or poly counts on the in-game models. As if games like RFOM, UT3 and GOW (God or Gears, take your pick) need "real" water for the gameplay to shine and for you to truly immerse yourself in the game. I've never heard anyone poo-poo UT2K4 because "the water is nothing more than two tileable textures looping in a criss-crossing pattern - that looks like shit and I am so disappointed with Unreal!" Having said that, if these games can actually get "real" water (as you call it, even though I cannot ever envision my LCD TV getting wet by playing a game) without taking away the other visuals (e.g. dynamic grass & weather) while making the gameplay work around these elements, then we're talking. Until then, however, none of this advanced technology means shit. Painkiller had all these cool destructible environments, but it wasn't a gameplay element and destroying things didn't help or hurt you; in other words, nice eye candy that did squat for gameplay. Your "1/7th, 1/3rd and 1/6th" arguments, and most of all, about "simulated" vs "real" water make about 1/223,348,382,865 sense.
RFOM, GEOW, UT3 all these game companies are extremely lucky..................geez LAIR has put CRYSIS in real CRISIS. hype for any other game has simply faded to 0 after the "water" and monster effects of LAIR. i had high hopes for FCATOR 5 when they said back at TGS that LAIR would be the most detailed next gen game with 50x more polygons than each char in GEARS. i dont even want HS, MGS 4,or motorstorm anymore...........all i want is LAIR. i am no longer attracted to my fav RFOM...........see the LAIR effect. all over the gaming forums people have just gone crazy with 60% cancellation of preorders for CRYSIS and other games. Clearly madness starts with motorstorm but is fueled to HELL by LAIR. (the new GOD of all GAMES)



sieanr on 26 February 2007

Crackdown has 3d water that looks very nice. It's honestly not difficult to do 3d water. Hell, Rouge Squadron on the 64 had 3d water, and it just so happens to have been a factor 5 game.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

washimul on 26 February 2007

sieanr said: Crackdown has 3d water that looks very nice. It's honestly not difficult to do 3d water. Hell, Rouge Squadron on the 64 had 3d water, and it just so happens to have been a factor 5 game.
lol CRACKDOWN ..........tht cartoon game again.........geez it got 7.8 on GS and 8 on IGN



sieanr on 26 February 2007

washimul said: sieanr said: Crackdown has 3d water that looks very nice. It's honestly not difficult to do 3d water. Hell, Rouge Squadron on the 64 had 3d water, and it just so happens to have been a factor 5 game. lol CRACKDOWN ..........tht cartoon game again.........geez it got 7.8 on GS and 8 on IGN
Since when does the score of a game matter? I thought it was all about graphics...



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

Kwaad on 26 February 2007

washimul said: RFOM, GEOW, UT3 all these game companies are extremely lucky..................geez LAIR has put CRYSIS in real CRISIS. hype for any other game has simply faded to 0 after the "water" and monster effects of LAIR. i had high hopes for FCATOR 5 when they said back at TGS that LAIR would be the most detailed next gen game with 50x more polygons than each char in GEARS. i dont even want HS, MGS 4,or motorstorm anymore...........all i want is LAIR. i am no longer attracted to my fav RFOM...........see the LAIR effect. all over the gaming forums people have just gone crazy with 60% cancellation of preorders for CRYSIS and other games. Clearly madness starts with motorstorm but is fueled to HELL by LAIR. (the new GOD of all GAMES)
Wtf seriouly. onward 1. The memory on the PS3 is better than the 360. No questions asked. If you dont beleive me. Go read about how memory is dont on the 360, and how memory is done on a GeForce8800GTX. Or any ATi cards if you think I'm bashing ATi. The 360's memory system is crap. 2. I am talking about water effects that look like real water... and look "good" I was looking at wave-race a while back thinking. Holy crap that water looks HORRIBLE. It came before the nifty animated water shaders I am talking about. For it's time WaveRace was killer. I think waveRace still has some of the best water in a game... ever. 3. I am not saying it effects the gameplay. I am just saying. To do '3D water effects' it takes ALOT of power. I dont know if the 360 could do it without crippling half the game. And I know for a fact, a PC has major trouble with it. 4. If you want a REAL water demo, get a GeForce8800GTX, and get the 'smoke' demo. It has a killer Water demo. However it chokes out the card for a tiny window... With no textures or anything. Just the water. 5. I am in no way saying the PS3 can do everything and anything. It cant. The RSX has about 25-50% more power than the 360's graphics card. The RSX has XDR memory, wich is at least 3x faster than what is on the 360. That makes a BIG diffrence. the CELL has a memory architure, where the processor dosent have to wait on the memory. The Cell has more memory bandwidth than alot of graphics cards have... Wich is ALOT more than any CPU. Power. the PS3 blows the 360 out of the water. In terms of wich will look better? the 360 has a few perks to make it look better with less effort. the PS3, will look the same with minimal effort. and look better with more effort. Dont compare the 360 to the PS3. It's biggest hardware advantage agianst the PS3 is the disk read speed. which oblivion proves dont matter. The Wii is the Wii. The only console it can compare to is the PS2. Also just to say this. If the Wii runs on 20w. HOLY CRAP. The Powersupply puts off more heat a 20w light. And the Wii itself is like a heater. If you want efficency. Get 100 wii's. That would be a KILLER heater. I actually think that is because the Wii's HORRIBLY built. The DVD drive goes click click click all the time. You can hear the DVD's in the drive spin... And I can hear the fans from 3 feet. My Wii is louder than my PS3... When both are on a table away from anything. The PS3 screams when it dosent get enough air. (and finally smokes) The Wii just stops working from what I've read. EDIT: 7.8 and 8 really isnt that bad... much better than most Wii games...



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!