I was just messing with you.  Your English is much than my ... whatever your first language is.

Your English is good.  Rol is just a smart ass. 

   Microsoft only made a profit because they pulled a bush administration accounting move.  Every year the Iraq war costs us well over 100 billion and every year it is a "supplemental" meaning it isn't included in the budget when they determine the deficit so the deficit doesn't look as bad as it is.  

   In the same way Microsoft did NOT include the billion+ for RROD repairs in the entertainment division numbers so it looked like they made a small profit.  They did not in fact make a profit if those numbers were included, which is why the numbers were excluded.

   They don't make that much in software since unlike Nintendo and Sony they don't really own any developers other then Rare and Bungee (since they cut ensemble loose).  They own a stake in a few others, but nothing that substantial.  What that means is they don't have the profit centers of SOE or Nintendo published games so they are more dependent on things like Live.  

   Incidentally, the lack of a real development backbone is a big part of why Microsoft has such a hard time making money in video games.  Nintendo isn't making billions selling Wiis (not in profit anyway), its making billions selling Nintendo published games, ditto with Sony to a lesser extent.  Microsoft is in the same position in consoles it occupies in OSes.  It doesn't really make much in the way of content so gouging where they can (400 dollars for Vista, 1000 for office, 50 for live, 2 bucks for a dashboard theme) is all they can do.

   I'd much rather have my console maker of choice making money from software sales then price gouging on accessories and multiplayer but maybe that's just me.

    As to Sony needing to come up with a ton of money for PSN that is semi untrue.  After all PC gaming has been free for well over a decade and a half and with the exception of a small window where MS tried to gouge for PC online play as well, it has proven perfectly sustainable to not charge for online gaming.

Surely we're too busy protecting the name of our favourite console manufacturer to be concerned about spelling.

Oops I forgot when writing above, they don't even really own Bungee anymore, so I guess its just Rare then?

You generally pay where dedicated servers are involved. And isn't that what Sony have?

I always thought developers get a pretty poultry return on their games.  Once you've paid for everything (wages and stuff) I can't imagine you'd get a huge amount out of developing a game. Surely you're better off sitting back, doing nothing (costing nothing) and getting a small return on everything sold? I appreciate they both do that, I just don't appreciate that Sony make a huge amount out of making their own games compared to someone not making their own games.

   Sometimes Sony hosts servers, like Warhawk for instance, they host a baseline number of servers (maybe 40 or 50) and then others host their own.  For other games like Call of Duty I think they use something similar to gamespy where there is matchmaking and a host.  I am not sure which games use dedicated and which ones use player to player connections.

    I do know that live is not all dedicated servers though.  In a lot of games I've found that both the PS3 and 360 use the same method (like both doing P2P gamespy type hosting) and the only difference is you are having to pay for the 360 version.

   You do pay for a dedicated server if you want like a clan server for Counterstrike or something, but that is very rare for most gamers.  Most people, like me, just join other peoples servers and play for free.  I have yet to pay for online for any game other then some MMOs on PC in over 15 years of gaming.

"Correct me if I am wrong..."

Yes you are wrong buddy, you are talking about the futur of console gaming.

XBLA is the reason why Microsoft is doing well, with almost 6 millions units ahead, more gamers online, more content, more games sold.

What a crappy thread, that is f*king fanboyism crap again ... enough for one day.

all im saying is ...that microsoft sure as hell aint making money from console sales !! so its gotta be from live !!

First and foremost Seece only assumes they are making a small loss. This is just an assumption and by no means is it fact. They could still be making money off of the console, as the price of manufacturing them could have went down.

Secondly, by your logic, Sony would be dead and gone if this were the case. If we are assuming today, I could assume that Sony is making little to no money off of their hardware, and their online interactive space is free. Plus, in most cases they don't have the luxury of the games on their system selling more copies.

Regardless, this thread if pretty pointless, and is fanboyism at it's greatest.

In response to my developers comment it didn't occur to me that they'd also be publisher.

Dunno why.

So they'd get pretty much every slice of the pie.

So they'd make more than I originally imagined.

Just ignore me