I just think you don't want to give credit to DMC for some reason.

There is no listing on Gamespot/IGN for "Japanese RPG" so does that mean that JRPGs don't exist? Eternal Sonata is a RPG, yes, but it's also a JRPG. According to them, Mirror's Edge is an action game. IGN also labels DMC as an action game. Are they the same genre? DMC is an action games, yes, but it is also in a subgenre. You insult your own intelligence, trying to bring crap like that as proof about anything. My opinion is wrong because I can't prove it? How the hell can you prove an opinion?

There are 3d action games on the PS1.

However, there are a large number of games based on the original DMC that share a subset of features with the game. Most people easily recognize these games, and accept that DMC 1 had a huge infulence on the overall genre, and itself sprung forth a group of styalized games modeled after it.

Even if you don't accept that. it is downright silly of you to think that you, out of everyone who has ever argued this argument, know for a fact that the other side, my side, is completely and provably wrong because IGN doesn't list subgenres and Dynasty Warriors exists. That's an undeniably weak argument.

Speaking of arguments, I never wanted to get into this one, but you just wouldn' let up. I assume you want to make sure that anyone else reading this(no one, because they've started skipping our rants, I'm sure) doesn't give DMC the credit it deserves(and it does deserve it, and you should acknowledge that, or admit anti-DMC biases). Every game I've mentioned was modeled after DMC. They share similar features. DMC itself was modeled after RE, and to a lesser extent Onimusha. However, those games are in a completely different genre, survival horror(though onimusha is actually a mix of different genres, I'd classify it as an action-horror), even though they basically have many similar features(like Dynasty Warriors).

You act like your argument is obviously right. Close-mindedness is all that is. Especially when I believe that a large portion of the gaming community would agree with me, that DMC, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, and Heavenly Sword and in a different sub-genre than Dynasty Warriors, and they are also in a different Genre than Mirror's Edge. Just how specific do you want to get with the genres? Is "Action" enough? It is for IGN. It's not for me, when I'm describing something, I don't tell my friend that Mirror's Edge or Dynasty Warriors are like DMC, but I do tell them that Ninja Gaiden is like DMC, because it is. Ninja Gaiden was based up it. So was every other damn game I'm talking about.

Let this be the end of the conversation.

OMFG! lol*   jajajajajaja

Looks different. Better than Madworld, i dk, but its certainly different.

Lovin the camera pan through her legs - tight latex / leather / hair crotch shot = win

 lol

If by shallow you mean "the deepest fighting engine ever created in a brawler" then yes, agreed.

While I haven't played much of NG, I think what makes DMC so different from most action games is the focus on using a variety of attacks as opposed to the same or most powerful combos over and over again(DW). The game itself punishes you for doing the same thing successively making the player think outside the box and encouraging them to be "Stylish!". Not to mention the variety of options and combos available to the player. The focus on long range, close range and aerial combat which most action games tend to focus on simply 1 or 2 of those.

On topic Bayonetta looks like it could be fun but there wasn't enough gameplay in the videos to tell. I'll probably just wait for reviews to see how it stacks up against the likes of DMC4 and NG2. The whole naked female thing doesn't do much for me.

sex sells!!!

I don't know what it is about the trailer, but every time I see this thread bumped I come in and end up watching it again. I think it's the music...

It's a Hack N Slash/ Brawler- 3D Beat Em Up  That's all the "sub genre" it needs.  Your simply trying to distill it down farther because some games are ripping it off... giving it too much credit because of your biases towards it.

I've got nothing against it.  However saying Devil May Cry is it's own Sub Genre is like saying Fire Emblem is a different Sub Genre then the Disgaea games.

They aren't.  They're all SRPGS.

At best you'd be calling a species a genius.

Also i'd also yes say JRPGs are a fautly made up sub genre.

The correct sub genres in the category of RPGs are Strategy RPG, Action RPG and Turnbased RPGs.

Sub genres based on something substantial not... "It's a little flashier and people ripped it off."

You may as well make Doom it's own sub genre of FPS because everyoens ripped off the space marine idea.

My point of IGN though somewhat befuddled i suppose is that it's a "sub genre" nobody recognizes.  Nobody calls games "Stylish Hard Action" or any bullshit like that because they are just 3-D beat em ups with a twist.

Finally, a real argument. I still disagree, but that's what I wanted to see. JRPGs are an easily definably sub-genre, and they have nothing to do with being made in Japan. I still think its impossible to name a game in the same sub-genre as DMC, before DMC came out, and passing off DW or Tenchu won't work.

Now, the general community hasn't named the DMC sub-genre, so they usually just say stuff like, "An action game in the vein of DMC." Very few 3rd person 3D action games in DMC's particular genre, whatever that may be, get their queues from DMC or games based upon it. That's obvious, not bias.

Again, acting like NG, GoW, and many, many other games weren't directly influenced, if not based upon DMC, and that many could consider such games a subgenre is rediculious, imo. There are action games, and then there are also action games based upon the original DMC game. It's a sub-set, if not a sub-genre. What, you don't think Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, God of War, and Heavenly Sword aren't direct ripoffs of the original Devil May Cry, even though they might have improved upon the formula? They most certainly are.

Directly influencing some other games doesn't = subgenre.   What other games were really influenced by DMC though?  Just for the record.

Sub Genres are much bigger then the handfull of games you describe. 

Subset DMC games would still fit in the Hack N Slash genre of Action.  If you want there to be a little "sub set" of DMC style games after that... that's fine.

The Sub genre however is still Hack N slash.