Fantastic thread.

That being said, I have to mildly disagree with one of RolStoppable's original statements:

"4. It can't be Nintendo's first party games, because they are the same as they were last generation."

Your statement holds true for the Zelda, Smash Bros, and Metroid franchises, but I'd say that there are some clear exceptions. Super Mario Galaxy is, hands down, the best game ever made IMO. That's coming from someone who previously thought that SNES Metroid and Zelda were tied for best game ever. Anyway, to say that Galaxy is better than Sunshine is the understatement of the decade. I also think that Mario Kart Wii is a vast improvement over Double Dash. I was a huge fan of the original Super Mario Kart, MK64, and MKDS, but Double Dash was a big letdown for me. Mario Kart Wii renewed my passion for the series.

Then explain your hate for naznatips? And what about twesterm? I have PROOF in my wall;

RolStoppable posted 10/09/2008, 05:09
That's true. You could even say that my mom is garbage. I hate twesterm.

And everybody knows that Austria = Australia around here, so it wouldn't change anything.

But seriously, it does strike me that they think big expensive games were in fine shape, and that the Wii magically made them financially unsound.

Rol knows that not only do you have to entice the audience but you also have to poke them and start little mini battles between people, all the while jeering them on and masturbating.
I mean really; it's a classic formula.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. You think we're playing the ''double-personality'' card here, but it's just you thinking that everyone suddenly like you more. Maybe your Australia you're talking about is actually a mind control facility.

I see what you're trying to do here, making yourself the victim. Now you come up with these threads all of a sudden because you're an attention seeker, and you're trying to make yourself some new allies for a war I'm not really sure about yet.

I believe it will come sooner than we may think. I've learned not to trust you, neither twesterm (you've even got mods with you)! D:

I might as well ask you if all those vodka martinis ever silence the screams of all the men you've killed... or if you find forgiveness in the arms of all those willing women for all the dead ones you failed to protect.

careful ! you could get reported for claiming anything could be more huge than lbp ! Scientists confirm it's impossiblez

here it is.. on a Huge screen

again here... a Huge close up

Everything in that game is huge.. even the small things. :o

Nice post as always, not great, but you got a nice amount of responses, btw, looks like you are the same fanboy logic as some people here, thats why most of them didn´t fall for it...

The Wii is evil, in the mind of the hardcore gamer, for essentially just one reason:

* It's too popular.

Why is this a problem, you might ask?

It wouldn't be, except for some other facts:

* The Wii's hardware is practically last-gen.
* Video game publishers like to make money.


In other words, the idea of a super popular low-end console (its much less powerful than the HD consoles, than the PS2 was relative to the XBox or GC) drives the concept that all the serious development $$ will eventually target this low-end hardware... thereby killing the hardcore gaming community via starvation.

If the Wii succeeds, it proves to the publishers that the money is in casual, and NOT in hardcore gaming... thus hardcore gaming effectively dies, much like PC gaming did a decade ago. The difference being that, with PC gaming, the relatively low costs of developing a game and publishing it allowed Eastern Bloc countries (and other lower-cost places to develop games) to succeed and keep the PC gaming market alive. The same will not be true for HD console games. They require a great deal of investment to succeed -- and who would ever invest in making such a game if a vicious cycle of non-investment causes HD game investments to fail relative to casual investments?

The Wii is hated by hardcore gamers because its very existance threatens hardcore gaming, by nature of making console gaming a "casual" thing.

You can argue that the Wii does have hardcore games... or at least some are planned... but to date, it has yet to prove that it can provide the kind of experience veteran gamers are looking for, unless they're looking for a cheery adventure with plumbing pipes and moustaches (which is a very fun diversion... from time to time). The Wii has not proven itself until those supposedly upcoming hardcore game experiences are released and critically acclaimed.

In a sense, the hardcore gaming community is jealous of the attention the publishers might give the massively popular Wii... because that attention is limited in scope.  Hardcore gamers want the publisher $$ spent on them, too, and the Wii is a casual bully who threatens to take their game money.

I'm just trying to sum up the thread, and cull the BS, really.

Ah, the old "my personal criteria for proper hardcore games magically speaks for everyone, and that magically proves the Wii doesn't have the proper hardcore experience," crap.

It didn't work then and it's not working now.

EDIT: And I still see you are willfully ignoring the fact that those games would be expensive and financially risky without the Wii.

So you think developers wouldn't have noticed without the Wii? Talk about bullshit. The Wii is successful because the market is this way, not because the Wii made the market that way.

Shooting the messenger won't magically change the fact that the games you want take a lot of time and money.