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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why are so many American games so up in arms against piracy?

crumas2 said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
Just like it's not a god-given rights that all participants in an industry remain healthy and profitable. If developers learned how to please the right gamers this wouldn't be an issue. Sell better software or sell it at a better price. As long as game developers chose to spend tons of money on games that only interest niche crowds they deserve what they get. Shitty business models cause tons of failures in tons of industries i don't see why this is any different.

 

You are correct that businesses which don't cater to their customers will suffer the natural consequences brought about by market economics, but that doesn't give people a right to steal from companies.  Two different issues here.

Same issue.  I'm paying sixty dollars a game because they wanna recoop "losses" by charging more per game sold.  Piracy is a known entity already figured into this price. Developers simply need to learn to stop pleasing themselves with thier game ideas and development processes and please the people willing to purchase them as Nintendo has proven there are plenty of.



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c0rd said:
hsrob said:

Cry me a river for the developing world.....While i understand piracy more there it's not written anywhere in the charter for human rights that people have a god-given right to play games.  Lots of things in life we have to learn to do without, why are games exempt from this?

Well, here's my answer: Nobody actually physically loses anything when the developing world gets to have their fun with it. If I told you aliens from space have been pirating all our (humans') media the entire time, should we be upset? The fact is, they weren't even potential customers, so why cry over it?

I've pirated my share and I'm not about to try and justify it, but I think there are situations where it isn't so bad. All the arguments surrounding this is based on the premise that our current economic system is fair, when I don't think it is. It's okay keeping hard working people from enjoying certain entertainment just because they were born in a third world country? Hell, I myself have probably been enjoying life a bit too much considering my contribution to society. There are people who are lucky enough to inherit tons of money from their family, is that fair?

Now, I don't think piracy is a good thing, but until there is a way for developing countries to get stuff reasonably affordable, there will be a legitimate argument for it. When you say China would be a better place to satisfy your gaming needs, you're missing the point. We aren't talking about people with western/developed salaries here - we're talking about Chinese people and the money they are able to spend. If there are wealthy people in China, they have no excuse for pirating stuff.

Like i said i at do partly understand it in developing countries, but when you are paying 60 cents for a copy of a game, or windows or whatever you like, that is more than leveling the playing field.  I'm on a Chinese salary and i could buy the whole Wii collection on the average monthly salary here (and i'm in poor China). 

Look, are there worse kinds of evil in the world, sure, but who can blame software companies for trying to stop it because there is no way they can ever compete with 60 cents per game.



hsrob said:

Like i said i at do partly understand it in developing countries, but when you are paying 60 cents for a copy of a game, or windows or whatever you like, that is more than leveling the playing field.  I'm on a Chinese salary and i could buy the whole Wii collection on the average monthly salary here (and i'm in poor China). 

Look, are there worse kinds of evil in the world, sure, but who can blame software companies for trying to stop it because there is no way they can ever compete with 60 cents per game.

Hrmm, okay then. I did notice your country listed as China, but still wasn't sure.

I'm obviously not against software companies being against piracy, I just feel that the products need to be cheaper where people simply cannot afford it - like, somehow scaled to the economy. Of course, this is harder to pull off than it sounds, but until we can find a better system that works, the widespread piracy in developing countries isn't going anywhere.



Mendicate Bias said:

ChichiriMuyo and c0rd both made the points I wanted to make.

1. The people who pirate, especially in 3rd world countries were never going to buy the product in the first place.

I of course love this excuse.  "Because I could never afford it, it should just be given to me.I think I should be given a Ferrarri because I'd never be able to afford one in my life.  Yeah, thats the ticket.

2. Digital theft is not the same as physical because the original owner is not losing anything from the digital copying of the product.

Oh yes, and this too.  Ok then, everyone in life that is not able to afford something, should be able to have it as long as it is digital.  Lets encourage people to be able to not earn what they want.  Let there be nothing for people to aspire to try and earn in life.  Let them use their time on stolen software as opposed to being productive and working towards being able to earn what they have.  Yeah, those that can't afford things should stay in a situation that they can't and cost those that earn their keep by increasing what they pay, because as weird as it is, developers and publishers need to earn money for a living.

If companies cared about pirating in 3rd world countries then they should bring the prices of their products down to a reasonable level for their consumers. When a new game costs the same as the fathers weekly salary then you can bet pirating is going to occur.

I frankly don't care if a 8 year old kid is having fun playing a pirated copy of spore in an internet cafe somewhere in Bagdhad, it doesn't effect anyone. The creators of the game would never have seen a penny from this kid because he cant afford the game at full retail price. As long as he's not physicaly hurting the owners then why not let him have his fun.

Oh yeah, and lets especially teach the young kids that they get whatever they want and don't have to work for it.  We all need a generation of people who don't work towards making their life, or life in general, better. All because they were taught they don't have to, they can have what they want without working for it. 

Some of you need to stop looking at things in black and white and realise there are shades of gray.

I really do not think that piracy is the worst thing in the world.  Nor do I claim to have never have owned a pirated piece of software.  Though, it has been rare and few.  But, what gets me is people that make excuses for it.  People who say it's ok, or even that it helps the industry.

 



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Well, to put it in perspective, let me break it down like this -

A publisher who has paid a development team to make a game will not give the developer a penny more until their investment is recouped and a certain profit point is made.

If the game only recoups the publisher costs, but doesn't make it to the profit point, the developer gets no more money.

The developer then has to do research and development with whatever money they have remaining in their company account, create a demo, pitch a game to the publisher to go through the routine all over again.

If the publisher doesn't make enough money to cover their investment costs, they consider the game a failure. Enough of these failures from a developer will make them not want to work with that developer any longer.

If there are no publishers for the developer to acquire money from for a new game, the development company dies.

If development teams die like this, the amount of new games available become fewer.

So by buying new games, you are supporting the gaming industry and future games.

If you pirate games, you are part of the disease that is killing off studios.

Remember, 2 wrongs do not make a right, and just because other people are doing it doesn't mean that its okay for you too.

It'd be funny to have people caught pirating given to the developers of the game they pirated. Would make for some realistic textures for blood and entrails.



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I think I will express this in terms that the OP might understand.

Let's say you operate a subscription website. You need 100 paid users to make it viable. You have 200 users but it turns out only 75 of them are paying while the rest have gotten codes from their friends or hacked into the site. You are out of business and you've lost your investment.

I am not going to say that I have not had sometime in my past had illegal copies of games. But when I got out of school, I "went straight" and got rid of improper disks of PC games (some of which were given to me as a gift). Now, about the only "copies" that I have are of out-of-print games which cannot be acquired any other way -- which I think is very different than pirating current games (its gray vs. black).

Some of the arguments that others have put forth about "developing countries" sound valid -- but I out there two caveats. First, in many cases, the pirates and their customers can afford most of what they are seeking to get cheaply. Second, video games are very low in the NEEDS of life (they are an optional desire -- not a required necessity) -- in other words, this is not stealing a loaf of bread to eat but rather stealing a ROM to play in your spare time.

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bardicverse said:

Well, to put it in perspective, let me break it down like this -

A publisher who has paid a development team to make a game will not give the developer a penny more until their investment is recouped and a certain profit point is made.

If the game only recoups the publisher costs, but doesn't make it to the profit point, the developer gets no more money.

The developer then has to do research and development with whatever money they have remaining in their company account, create a demo, pitch a game to the publisher to go through the routine all over again.

If the publisher doesn't make enough money to cover their investment costs, they consider the game a failure. Enough of these failures from a developer will make them not want to work with that developer any longer.

If there are no publishers for the developer to acquire money from for a new game, the development company dies.

If development teams die like this, the amount of new games available become fewer.

So by buying new games, you are supporting the gaming industry and future games.

If you pirate games, you are part of the disease that is killing off studios.

Remember, 2 wrongs do not make a right, and just because other people are doing it doesn't mean that its okay for you too.

It'd be funny to have people caught pirating given to the developers of the game they pirated. Would make for some realistic textures for blood and entrails.

Well said.  You didn't mention the human side of it... when development companies default it means the employees no longer have jobs.  Yes, they can try to find other jobs, but the number of developers will dwindle and the jobs will become fewer as piracy steals more of the revenue.

 



We have only ever found one stable system that works and gives everyone reasonable comfort and equal opportunity - capitalism. Piracy undermines capitalism and companies either fail (remember that without companies we have no capitalism and therefore a worse system) or resort to liberty-restricting measures like DRM.

By pirating games, you are electing for a system that is more unfair and inefficient than capitalism.

Now, reverse engineering for the purposes of e.g. compatibility ought to be legal, because otherwise the company is restricting your rights to do something with something you bought, and that is supportive of a free market, not undermining it.



DTG said:

I find the passionate hate many u.s games seem to hold against piracy quite perplexing. For one I think almost all of you have pirated one thing or another in your life whether it be music or even a photograph. But when it comes to vg piracy many of you get your panties in a bunch. We are talking multi million, in cases billion dollar coorporations here. If the game only makes 50 instead of 70 million in revenue is that really such an evil thing? Afterall I don't think the CEO's of these companies are begging for money on street corners and having a difficult time making ends meet. Is it really such a question of morale integrity when talking about a few extra bucks filthy rich multinationals maybe losing out on, or does everyone here happen to be a part of that upper 5% corporate elite?

 

If you are the one creating the game and not getting paid for it, then yes its evil.

When I was an idiot teen I pirated all of the things you stated. Now, that I am a working professional I don't pirate anything and havn't if about 7 years or so. It is the same as walking into store and stealing a tv. Afterall, if Walmart makes 50 instead of 70 million in revenue is that really such an evil thing? Why would they arrest me and put me in jail?

It doesn't matter what the financial situation of the CEO's are, you are not going to hurt them in the long run with piracy. You will hurt the people on the bottom rungs, the support staff and programmers who will be downsized because the company didn't meet their forcasts due to losing a few million to theives. Those are the people with families and such that will have to find other jobs and may lose their homes, etc.

I think thieves should have their hands cut off.



Many of us probably have stolen music or games at some point in our lives. Then we grew up, came to our senses, and stopped stealing these things. Now we fight against those who still lack the basic human decency to respect other people's and companies' property.

What the company makes is irrelevant; piracy is still theft, and those who pirate are still nothing but common thieves.



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