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Forums - Nintendo - Let's assume the trolls are right, Wii is a last-gen system.

Here's my question: who cares? Whether people say it is a 6th or 7th generation console doesn't change a thing.



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Resident_Hazard said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"and as LordTheNightKnight said it's 7th gen tech at lower specs."

So support my claim, look at handhelds.

The PSP uses 7th gen parts, at specs comparable to the PS2, but in a really small package. The Slim PS2 was pretty small already, but it could not go below a certain size because it just used improved 6th gen parts, while the PSP was able to get smaller with the 2000 (wonder what the rumored upcoming 4000 will be like. Either way, the PSP already has games on par with the PS2 (God of War), with upcoming games likely to top it (Resistance might).

For Nintendo's systems, the GBA and DS use processors made by ARM, which is one of the best developers for portable device processors. Which is why the GBA's specs compare better to the Amiga (although not in screen resolution) and the Neo-Geo than the SNES. The DS has the power of the N64, but not the bottlenecks, which means developers can take top level PS1 graphics as the minimum. Just look at how Mario 64 DS compared to the original version.

That's because they used parts of the generation they were made in, but at the specs of the generation they were based on.

 

 

The GBA actually had a 32-bit processor, putting it leagues ahead of the SNES.  In a sense it was more powerful than the "24-bit" Neo-Geo (actually a super-charged 16-bit architecture, as per my understanding). 

I'd like to see a comprehensive breakdown of "overall power" between the N64, PS1, and DS.  Show us just what the DS is capable of doing that the N64 and PS1 couldn't.  See if there's still room for graphical improvement and advancement, and overall advancement in the thing.  Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword pulled off some impressive graphics on the DS, easily challenging some N64 and PS1 graphics.  I know the DS is easier to handle than the N64, and that it doesn't have the N64's "texture smear," but supposedly has better technology handling the textures--allowing larger, more detailed 3D. 

Anybody have a breakdown of this?  I know that with that Ash game, the DS officially broke to 2 Gigabits in game size, effectively double the largest N64 games--which topped off at 512 Megabits (Resident Evil 2 was one of 'em). 

 

 

32-bit is not leagues ahead. Bit size became irrelevant years ago. How could you not have known that?

It's overall system specs that matter, not the word size (which is important, but not a real indicator of processing power). In terms of those, the Neo-Geo had a far more powerful processor, which was a huge factor in the system's huge cost. The GBA is way ahead of the SNES because of CPU speed and memory, not because of word size.

As for the DS vs PS1 and N64, the specs are available. But for an actual analysis, check out these pages on the PS1, N64, and DS.

512 megabits compared to 2 gigabits is quadruple, not double.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
Resident_Hazard said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"and as LordTheNightKnight said it's 7th gen tech at lower specs."

So support my claim, look at handhelds.

The PSP uses 7th gen parts, at specs comparable to the PS2, but in a really small package. The Slim PS2 was pretty small already, but it could not go below a certain size because it just used improved 6th gen parts, while the PSP was able to get smaller with the 2000 (wonder what the rumored upcoming 4000 will be like. Either way, the PSP already has games on par with the PS2 (God of War), with upcoming games likely to top it (Resistance might).

For Nintendo's systems, the GBA and DS use processors made by ARM, which is one of the best developers for portable device processors. Which is why the GBA's specs compare better to the Amiga (although not in screen resolution) and the Neo-Geo than the SNES. The DS has the power of the N64, but not the bottlenecks, which means developers can take top level PS1 graphics as the minimum. Just look at how Mario 64 DS compared to the original version.

That's because they used parts of the generation they were made in, but at the specs of the generation they were based on.

 

 

The GBA actually had a 32-bit processor, putting it leagues ahead of the SNES.  In a sense it was more powerful than the "24-bit" Neo-Geo (actually a super-charged 16-bit architecture, as per my understanding). 

I'd like to see a comprehensive breakdown of "overall power" between the N64, PS1, and DS.  Show us just what the DS is capable of doing that the N64 and PS1 couldn't.  See if there's still room for graphical improvement and advancement, and overall advancement in the thing.  Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword pulled off some impressive graphics on the DS, easily challenging some N64 and PS1 graphics.  I know the DS is easier to handle than the N64, and that it doesn't have the N64's "texture smear," but supposedly has better technology handling the textures--allowing larger, more detailed 3D. 

Anybody have a breakdown of this?  I know that with that Ash game, the DS officially broke to 2 Gigabits in game size, effectively double the largest N64 games--which topped off at 512 Megabits (Resident Evil 2 was one of 'em). 

 

 

32-bit is not leagues ahead. Bit size became irrelevant years ago. How could you not have known that?

It's overall system specs that matter, not the word size (which is important, but not a real indicator of processing power). In terms of those, the Neo-Geo had a far more powerful processor, which was a huge factor in the system's huge cost. The GBA is way ahead of the SNES because of CPU speed and memory, not because of word size.

As for the DS vs PS1 and N64, the specs are available. But for an actual analysis, check out these pages on the PS1, N64, and DS.

512 megabits compared to 2 gigabits is quadruple, not double.

Everyone knows that bit-based measurements went out with the Dreamcast as it was about the last to tout such a thing, although Nintendo did mention the 32-bit processor on the GBA box.  With the 32-bit processor and all the other tweaks, I'd say that the GBA is almost leagues ahead of the SNES.  Word size is generally irrelevant after 64 bits.

That last bit, though, I'll have to call a "my bad" on that.  I was looking right at the thing and added the numbers wrong in my head.  I knew that didn't sound right.  DS games can effectively be four times the size of N64 games.  Dammit, I've stated this correctly many times before.  Pobody's nerfect.

 



It's all the tweaks of the GBA, definitely. The CPU's speed is 16mhz, which is slightly slower than the Super FX 2's 21 mhz, but the overall power makes up for that. The RAM is also twice the size (256KB RAM +128KB VRAM compared to 128KB RAM + 64KB VRAM), the sprites are more complex (with no flicker if there are too many on the same line), and the carts are larger (up to 32MB instead of up to 6MB).



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

perpride said:
Here's my question: who cares? Whether people say it is a 6th or 7th generation console doesn't change a thing.

The people who say it must care!



PC + Wii owners unite.  Our last-gen dying platforms have access to nearly every 90+ rated game this gen.  Building a PC that visually outperforms PS360 is cheap and easy.    Oct 7th 2010 predictions (made Dec 17th '08)
PC: 10^9
Wii: 10^8

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I just thought of something, you know what else changes each generation besides graphics and all that?

The controllers. Well, unless you're Sony. I don't know whether to give Microsoft a point in this area since the 360 controller is practically identical to the original xbox controller when you compare them against other controller changes through generations.

So now the PS3 and 360 are last gen since they didn't change their controllers, while the Wii is the only current gen system since it actually really changed the controllers.

And that's what happens when you base a "generation" solely on controllers. If you don't like it, I suggest not being a hypocrite and saying it's solely graphics.

(That wasn't aimed at anyone in particular)



Funny and interesting forum.



Best games still on PS360.

Most relevant 3rd party support on PS360.

That's all that matters. David Reeves once said "the hardware doesn't matter if you don't have the software" or something like that and comparatively speaking, the games are on the next gen consoles. Just look at that recent graph that showed systems with the most 70+, 80+, and 90+ games and the PS3/360 annihilated the the Wii...but with games under 40, the Wii took the crown.

So yeah, let's assume the trolls are right, and the Wii is last gen. Last gen means comparatively getting last gen experiences, and the numbers show that the Wii also holds that crown. It may be selling like hotcakes, but the flow of excellent games sure isn't going on there

/thread



"/thread"

Wrong. You just posted points already proven wrong here and elsewhere.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

11ht11 edit: save yourself the time, dont bother reading this

BMaker11 said:
Best games still on PS360.

Most relevant 3rd party support on PS360.

That's all that matters. David Reeves once said "the hardware doesn't matter if you don't have the software" or something like that and comparatively speaking, the games are on the next gen consoles. Just look at that recent graph that showed systems with the most 70+, 80+, and 90+ games and the PS3/360 annihilated the the Wii...but with games under 40, the Wii took the crown.

So yeah, let's assume the trolls are right, and the Wii is last gen. Last gen means comparatively getting last gen experiences, and the numbers show that the Wii also holds that crown. It may be selling like hotcakes, but the flow of excellent games sure isn't going on there

/thread