Why not? Nintendos new vision of gaming is expanded game sales for all kind of games. Even games like your beloved highly-rated PS2 games.

@bdbdbd----->So its all about catering to mainstream then than just catering to casuals that everyone believes? Do you mean that casual gaming as we known it was really mainstream audiences all along? Then what about the Playstation days? What SONY is catering to in those mainstream audience in those days? Dont tell me the mainstream audience of those days actually likes Wii Sports and other "casual games' too?

@Yushire: Your question is hard to answer, if you don't tell what the "casual" is. So far, it's been anything that the self-proclaimed "hardcore" doesn't like.

The "mainstream" implies to something, that is not "niche" or "specialized" market. So, are you talking about the mainstream as the mainstream in games market, or mainstream as the mainstream outside the games market? The mainstream in the games market, is the "hardcore", you see talked a lot, because it's the largest group and it uses its size to define itself as "elite". Now gaming in general is for kids, because the mainstream outside games is the biggest group and it is using its size to define games as "something that kids do".

During the Sony days, most of the audience expansion came from Europe/others and population increase.
Now there were games like Buzz and Singstar, which catered beyond the existing audience, but there's one fundamental difference between Sonys strategy and Nintendos strategy; Sony never tried to get the Singstar audience to play the core audience games. Sony made a dozen Singstar games to cater the Singstar audience, instead of making one Singstar game and one game that would introduce the Singstar audience to play something like Max Payne for example. Nintendo made one Wii Sports and is using Mario Kart to get this audience to play Super Mario Galaxy. Of course , this audience is still open to games like Wii Sports, so you are able to make similar games for the audience.

So, the new audience Sony got along, are propably interested in Wii Music/Sports/Play.

"@Paul Warren: No i don't like Mariah Carey. Do you? Anyway, what did that have to do with review scores of games, that are rated outside the real market?

I don't think nobody cares what you like or don't like, you're not the market."


What you said in your earlier post was that critical reviews for products don't matter and the only determining factor of a product's value is how well it sells. Well, Mariah Carey's albums have sold more copies than any other musician's. According to your earlier post that means she's the greatest musician of all time even better than Bach, Beethoven, and Wagner because her albums have sold more copies.

@Paul Warren: Wasn't that hard, wasn't it.

Yes, the public have judged Mariah Carey to be the greatest artist so far. If the reviewer disagrees, either the reviewer is wrong or doesn't represent the audience.
No matter what i think about Britney Spears, she still has sold more records than whole of my favourite music genre. So, i can make only one assumption; i'm not in the general public and can't rate the general publics perceived quality about music.

"Yes, the public have judged Mariah Carey to be the greatest artist so far. If the reviewer disagrees, either the reviewer is wrong or doesn't represent the audience.
No matter what i think about Britney Spears, she still has sold more records than whole of my favourite music genre. So, i can make only one assumption; i'm not in the general public and can't rate the general publics perceived quality about music."

However cetain inalienable rights granted in the Constitution of the United States allow you to formulate and express an opinion upon where such tastes come from and to comment upon why you feel they are not the correct ones.

This is what Im pointing about, why the new audience catering? OK, away with my point about Ninty making console gaming same as TV and other entertainment system and making it like have same function. Home entertainment like karaoke and Ipods...

If SONY was succesful on just catering only to core gamers and not pursuing to cater to the new audience a.k.a. "kids and parents" what more for Nintendo? In E3 2006 what we (core gamers) expect of Ninty isnt what we expected now, minigame collections, party games, party sport games, ports and spin offs like Resident Evil umbrella Chronicles. The sad part was these are the games that sells the most, just look at my list of games all of them are Wii games, only few of them are minigames and party games. I didnt even bought Mario and Sonic and carnival games. What we expect are core games that implementing the controls of the wii remote and the nunchuck like a solid FPS not a port that implementing the Wii pointer controls. What we get sadly was only one game and it will not be released till next year(The Conduit)... see what I mean?

I dont mind about Ninty catering to kids and parents as your term the "mainstream" but I think Ninty catering to "mainstream" audiences are going TOO FAR. Just look at the charts what Wii game is selling the most Wii Fit. Where are the other core games that should be selling too on the Wii like No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki? It didnt even barely reach 500,000 units. What Ninty would get if theyre developing Wii games? Are they really making the lower tier becoming upper tier? Wii Music? Wii Resort? What else? Wii gardening? OK... Wii Music was actually good I KNOW but the more Ninty doing this catering to mainstream the more they alienated with the core audience. I mean, what else the mainstream could ever buy instead of MK Wii and Wii Fit?

Thats why Im more convinced that our era in gaming was over, I think Im the only member here that accept this. Who knows, maybe next year there are games thats actually "core game" defining like what Super Mario Bros., Megaman, Contra and SMB3 did with the NES. But remember, when we are a kid, we cant even jump across on the first Goomba or the first pit of World 1-1 on Super Mario and we're too new with the controls that when mario move our arms move along with it, and when Mario jumps we jump along with it. Dont deny that this isnt true either, thats why we're still playing battle city, galaga, galaxian, warpman, bomberman, etc... just to get along with the controls. Its always that way till 1991 when SMB3 hits and SNES came along and we graduated from playing Pac man and Donkey Kong Jr. on the NES and playing Castlevania 3 on the NES.

Sales are the last thing by which you should judge a games quality.

And the music comparisons are stupid too. Music is the one thing in the world that is totally subjective.

In the end, the only reason anyone's talking about this game, or even knows about it is because it's made by Nintendo and has "Wii" in the title. I wonder how differently Malstrom and many of you in this thread defending this trash would think of it if Ubisoft had was the developer.

Continue with the rant, now compare the first year of the NES and on with the Wii, the classics such as Battle city, Exerion, donkey kong, Mario Bros(not the super mario one), bomberman, lode runner, arkanoid, ninja boy, etc... and compare it to carnival games, mario and sonci and game party.

I think these minigames on the Wii same as tetris NES will be the standard in years to come till a video game defining game will change the gaming world same thing what super mario 3 did, BUT... it takes years to do it.

Before, even platform games when the original SMB was just a rehash of the original like Adventure Island. In Wii's lifespan, we will be bored with ports, remakes and minigames before we even seen those defining games days on the Wii...

I think we will see the real change till 2010 but as of now the core gamers will be bored out with the Wii till then...

@yushire:
I think you have it backwards and have selective memory.
Nintendo put out core games of several kind. Same for some 3rd parties.
But you come off like it's Nintendo's fault that the "hardcore" players didn't buy them.
Of course this is nonsense. This is partly "hardcore" players (or people like you)'s fault that these games didn't sell a lot. If SMG doesn't sell anymore or far lower than Wii Fit, that's entirely this "hardcore" crowd's fault.
The other part to blame are the 3rd parties. Where are the "hardcore" games from them?
See? You can choose to be blind, like I'm seeing constantly this gen. Blind in the meaning of ignoring all the Nintendo core and "hardcore" games.
3rd parties can stay blind, like for DS/PSP, choosing to ignore the best market for their games.
But the facts won't change.
They show how the Wii, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Music, ... are genius' works.
You can stay safe in the middle, doubting the effect of these Nintendo innovative games and hardware. But Nintendo put money and took big risk in this venture, and they reap the reward.