Onyxmeth said: There is so much bad in this interview it's not even funny. I have a feeling that ID software is trying to pin Microsoft to the wall over this by talking publicly about it. However, telling the fanbase for this game that it's confirmed "gimped" from the start is going to do nothing more than alienate fans from all platforms. Microsoft cannot change the fact that the 360 plays DVDs. What's done is done. ID needed to adapt to this situation before starting Rage and seeing whether the 360 was the right platform for this game. Obviously it wasn't. However, money talks, and ID thinks they need the userbase to sell. We had the same problems in the last gen when it was flipped around and games needed to be gimped on the Xbox and Gamecube because publishers needed that PS2 userbase. I know how this well end up though. Microsoft is going to get the blame for this. It will be their fault that ID feels forced into developing for them, forced to sacrifice their game's integrity, forced to fit a square peg into a round hole. If this were taken a step further, and ID felt they needed the Wii's userbase for this game, and had the game refitted on all platforms to accomodate the Wii, would it then be Nintendo's fault? ID is making a game that does not belong on the 360 in it's prefered form, and it's ID's fault that they are making it for the 360 because of this, not Microsoft's. Quick question though for those knowledgeable. Don't PC games also come out on DVDs? If they do then why aren't they also part of the problem?

But it IS Microsoft's fault.  id has stated that a third disc is probably all that would be necessary to make the 360 version of Rage as good as they originally intended it to be, but Microsoft's licensing fees make using a third disc far too costly.  That's the reason they brought these problems out for everybody to see.  It's an attempt to force Microsoft's hand, getting them to lower their licensing fees.

It apparently hasn't worked.

Microsoft probably instituted these hefty fees just to keep Sony from having the "disc swapping" talking point, and it's probably why only Microsoft published games have gone past the two disc mark thus far (Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey - Microsoft doesn't have to pay itself royalties, afterall).

I wonder how this will effect the 360 version of FFXIII.  Luckily the ps3 version should be finished before they even begin the 360 version, should Square Enix stay true to their word.

Squilliam said: This is so funny. You guys can complain all you want, but remember parity goes both ways. When PS3 fans were screaming for parity in multiplatform games Sony instituted a rule that PS3 and Xbox 360 versions must be the same. I would pick Microsoft did the same and for the rest of the generation - a good 4 years away there will be no advantage in Blu Ray for 85% of games released.

 

And that's a good thing?

Also, I'm pretty sure Sony just said that ps3 versions of multiplat games can't be worse than their 360 counterparts.  Not that they must be equal.

Squilliam said: This is so funny. You guys can complain all you want, but remember parity goes both ways. When PS3 fans were screaming for parity in multiplatform games Sony instituted a rule that PS3 and Xbox 360 versions must be the same. I would pick Microsoft did the same and for the rest of the generation - a good 4 years away there will be no advantage in Blu Ray for 85% of games released.

 

I think you have it wrong Squil. If this were true we would not have seen the atrocities initially which had the PS3 on the loosing side.

The new Sony rule I believe you are refering to is that Sony says any game that is to be delayed from 360 to PS3 must at least have exta content of some form with it. This is why Oblivion came with the first expansion pack, Bioshock with extra game modes, Eternal Sonata with extra characters and scenes, etc. This inssures that Developers will stop trying to give the PS3 the least effort possible with their games.

The idea of game equality comes from the consumers. PS3 owners want there game to look just as good as it's 360 counterpart, if not better, because we know that the PS3 is the more powerful system. While the PS3 can do whatever the 360 can do, the 360 cannot do all things the PS3 can do. Developers have become lazy with porting to PS3, having the superior system suffer from glitches and the like becuase they did not want to put in the time and effort.

BMaker11 said: Squilliam said: This is so funny. You guys can complain all you want, but remember parity goes both ways. When PS3 fans were screaming for parity in multiplatform games Sony instituted a rule that PS3 and Xbox 360 versions must be the same. I would pick Microsoft did the same and for the rest of the generation - a good 4 years away there will be no advantage in Blu Ray for 85% of games released. At least what Sony did didn't result in games being gimped......are you really trying to side with M$ on this one?

Multiplatform games will be released on the Xbox 360 and PS3 which are equal. It doesn't mean jack if the PS3 has Blu ray because the Xbox 360 does not. Game developers will seek to bring equality and Sony and Microsoft will implement rules that are to their best advantage.If Sony was all roses in this why did they make a rule which states that no game will be certified on their console if it is not equal with the Xbox 360 version and if it is released later it must have extra content?

 

Squilliam said: Shinlock said: if MS charged a royality per game title vs per disc like they currently do, this would of never had been an issue. for the sake of other developers, drop the crap Microsoft. Sony implements rules which state that games must be equal between PS3 and Xbox 360 versions. Microsoft implements a royalty program intended to penalise games released on more than 1 disk. Game developers make it their goal to release equal games for both platforms because they don't want bad publicity for any version of the game. Do you see a trend here?

eh, Microsoft's one doesn't relate to the others.. also sony generally want their version to be better then the 360 version (well if released second, don't worry I don't like this policy either). so your "trends" doesn't really match up entirely.

 

makingmusic476 said: Squilliam said: This is so funny. You guys can complain all you want, but remember parity goes both ways. When PS3 fans were screaming for parity in multiplatform games Sony instituted a rule that PS3 and Xbox 360 versions must be the same. I would pick Microsoft did the same and for the rest of the generation - a good 4 years away there will be no advantage in Blu Ray for 85% of games released.   And that's a good thing? Also, I'm pretty sure Sony just said that ps3 versions of multiplat games can't be worse than their 360 counterparts.  Not that they must be equal.

Likely Microsoft implemented that rule as well.

Equal is the only way forward at this point. Good or bad, it doesn't matter.

 

Isn't this old?

MS royalities suck. yadda yadda.

outlawauron said: Isn't this old? MS royalities suck. yadda yadda.

 

Not really old.  Originally, we heard that the ps3 version might have slightly better textures than the 360 version because of the 360's use of DVD, and the PC version would remain ne the best, as per the norm.

Now we find out this:

makingmusic476 said: Onyxmeth said: There is so much bad in this interview it's not even funny. I have a feeling that ID software is trying to pin Microsoft to the wall over this by talking publicly about it. However, telling the fanbase for this game that it's confirmed "gimped" from the start is going to do nothing more than alienate fans from all platforms. Microsoft cannot change the fact that the 360 plays DVDs. What's done is done. ID needed to adapt to this situation before starting Rage and seeing whether the 360 was the right platform for this game. Obviously it wasn't. However, money talks, and ID thinks they need the userbase to sell. We had the same problems in the last gen when it was flipped around and games needed to be gimped on the Xbox and Gamecube because publishers needed that PS2 userbase. I know how this well end up though. Microsoft is going to get the blame for this. It will be their fault that ID feels forced into developing for them, forced to sacrifice their game's integrity, forced to fit a square peg into a round hole. If this were taken a step further, and ID felt they needed the Wii's userbase for this game, and had the game refitted on all platforms to accomodate the Wii, would it then be Nintendo's fault? ID is making a game that does not belong on the 360 in it's prefered form, and it's ID's fault that they are making it for the 360 because of this, not Microsoft's. Quick question though for those knowledgeable. Don't PC games also come out on DVDs? If they do then why aren't they also part of the problem? But it IS Microsoft's fault.  id has stated that a third disc is probably all that would be necessary to make the 360 version of Rage as good as they originally intended it to be, but Microsoft's licensing fees make using a third disc far too costly.  That's the reason they brought these problems out for everybody to see.  It's an attempt to force Microsoft's hand, getting them to lower their licensing fees. It apparently hasn't worked. Microsoft probably instituted these hefty fee just so to keep Sony from having the "disc swapping" talking point, and it's probably why only Microsoft published games have gone past the two disc mark thus far (Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey - Microsoft doesn't have to pay itself royalties, afterall). I wonder how this will effect the 360 version of FFXIII.  Luckily the ps3 version should be finished before they even begin the 360 version, should Square Enix stay true to their word.

Every console maker limits publishers in some way or another. It's an ugly part of the business that started a long time ago and will not change. Every console maker wants their games on a level playing field. Does it suck? Yes. Is this news though? No. ID is not some upstart developer that doesn't understand this. They've been around a long time.

Here's why it's not Microsoft's fault and why ID went the wrong direction in forcing Microsoft's hand. Show me any interview with any member of ID where they state that Microsoft has a gun to their head and are requiring a 360 port of Rage. There obviously isn't one, and it was ID's decision to develop a 360 port and gimp the game because of it. Is it necessary for a game to be on the 360 to be successful? I'm sure most would say no in most cases, and it's still true here. They have options and they chose the worst one for gamers. 360 owners should have either been S.O.L. or ID shoud have sucked it up and ate the additional royalty costs.We don't know how costly it really is, so it's hard to guage what "too costly" means.

What's funny is, had ID decided to announce that the 360 would not get the game because of this royalty cost, I can damn near guarantee that would have successfully forced Microsoft's hand into lifting the fee and thus would have solved the issue.

 

forevercloud3000 said: Squilliam said: This is so funny. You guys can complain all you want, but remember parity goes both ways. When PS3 fans were screaming for parity in multiplatform games Sony instituted a rule that PS3 and Xbox 360 versions must be the same. I would pick Microsoft did the same and for the rest of the generation - a good 4 years away there will be no advantage in Blu Ray for 85% of games released.   I think you have it wrong Squil. If this were true we would not have seen the atrocities initially which had the PS3 on the loosing side. The new Sony rule I believe you are refering to is that Sony says any game that is to be delayed from 360 to PS3 must at least have exta content of some form with it. This is why Oblivion came with the first expansion pack, Bioshock with extra game modes, Eternal Sonata with extra characters and scenes, etc. This inssures that Developers will stop trying to give the PS3 the least effort possible with their games. The idea of game equality comes from the consumers. PS3 owners want there game to look just as good as it's 360 counterpart, if not better, because we know that the PS3 is the more powerful system. While the PS3 can do whatever the 360 can do, the 360 cannot do all things the PS3 can do. Developers have become lazy with porting to PS3, having the superior system suffer from glitches and the like becuase they did not want to put in the time and effort.

Sony games and Blu Ray movies will use the disks to their capacity. Multiplatform games will not. Its called a standard and thats the standard for multiplatform development.

multiplats will not use the Xbox 360s extra ram or the tessellator or the Ed-Ram and more advanced GPU to full effect, nor will they use any aparant advantages in disk space or the Cell processor.

Btw I wouldn't call developers lazy to their face either. They work extremely long hours and anything which makes their job easier is fine by me. If they can't produce the same result within the same budget between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 it is due to a failing in their development process or they haven't been able to achieve parity within a limited time/budget constraint which certainly isn't helped by the PS3 being taking more time/effort to achieve the same result than the Xbox 360.