Two things:

This is a delicate balance between the rights of the producer and the rights of the buyer. This was clarified for CDs, Video etc. with the Fair Use concepts.
IMO you buy the physical copy of the music, book, movie game. And you should be able to do with your copy what you please including installing it as many times as you want, selling it, shooting it to the moon ...
That's different if you distribute it in any form but nobody is talking about that.




I hope that enough people are knowledgeable enough to NOT support this. If people would accept all this bullshit we would have mp3 stores that cost more than CDs, work only when you are connected to the internet and cease working after a given time/number of plays. Customers saw that this was a terrible value proposition and simply didn't buy it. Problem solved. Now downloadable music is more and more DRM free which is a good thing. Because consumers didn't buy that shit.



"Might" is not exactly something I would bet 60$ on. Besides its more a question of what we shouldn't accept.

My issue with DRM is that it in my opinion it over restricts the honest person in a redundant attempt to dissuade the dishonest.

To me its like the annoying warning at the beginning of a DVD... if I'm not going to copy it then I don't need the warning. If I am going to copy it I'm clearly going to ignore the warning.

At the end of the day the kind of restricts this level of DRM imposes (when compared to say your freedom when you purchase a CD or a DVD) seems very out of balance to me.

I have never pirated nor will I. But I really doubt DRM does much to stop it and if you extrapolate from current trends regarding backlash then titles with heavy DRM are very likely to see legitimate sales reduced (in addition to being pirated anyway) - i.e. the net effect of such DRM will be negative for the title in question.

I find the argument that DRM is redundant and a nuisance to the average user valid... but I feel the need to use a sarcastic analogy. Please be assured I understand the analogy is flawed.

My prescription medicine can only be legally used by me and is only good for three refills before I ask the doctor for a renewal.

That is BS, I was prescribed the pills and paid good money to the doctor! I should be able to get a refill as many times as I want! I bought it, it should be mine! I have the right to do whatever I want with the drugs. Now I am angry so I am going to go buy some drugs off the street or just not get the medicine at all! We should remove drug regulation!

Doctor = Game company                                                                    

Medicine = game                                                                            

refill = reinstall 

Renewal = Asking Customer Service            

Illegal drugs = Piracy

 

I know that was a HORRENDOUSLY sarcastic analogy, (and much more serious than simple game DRM) but it works for me. The drug laws prevent people from abusing medication. This works in the same way DRM prevents people from pirating. Of course pirates will get the game anyway. But it is the exact same for the medication. There are still drug dealers out there but not as much as if we had no laws. Same with piracy.

Because it's a known fact that most gamers buy a new PC gaming rig every 6 months and have to reinstall all their software each time they do so...
What is amazing is that the PC sales don't support this so most gamers must be buying their PC used or stolen...
It's a know fact too that most gamer tend to play the same game year over year and DRM will prevent them to show in 40 years to their grandkid how Spore was back then.......
/sarcasm off.


Seriously.
Renting software is how much of the software industry works outside of gaming.
So why the heck the outrage ?
Everyone on this forum is new to software or what ?

NJ5 said: When I buy a game, I expect to be able to resell it and/or install it as many times as I want to without having to call an expensive number. To make it even worse, there's the fact that these stupid protections don't protect anything. The game has been cracked from day one. All it does is annoy their paying customers. So let me put the question in another way: What's there NOT to hate about Spore's DRM?

 

This pretty much sums it up for me. DRM increases costs for the publisher, reduces value to the consumer, and yields no gains for either party.

There are techniques for de facto DRM which actually work by providing additional value to the consumer. Steam and consoles are the best examples of this. Install limits and rootkits are bad DRM, and deserve all the marketplace punishment they get. It's a major reason why I'm moving away from PC gaming.

Lem_Nx said: I find the argument that DRM is redundant and a nuisance to the average user valid... but I feel the need to use a sarcastic analogy. Please be assured I understand the analogy is flawed. My prescription medicine can only be legally used by me and is only good for three refills before I ask the doctor for a renewal. That is BS, I was prescribed the pills and paid good money to the doctor! I should be able to get a refill as many times as I want! I bought it, it should be mine! I have the right to do whatever I want with the drugs. Now I am angry so I am going to go buy some drugs off the street or just not get the medicine at all! We should remove drug regulation! Doctor = Game company                                                                     Medicine = game                                                                             refill = reinstall  Renewal = Asking Customer Service             Illegal drugs = Piracy   I know that was a HORRENDOUSLY sarcastic analogy, (and much more serious than simple game DRM) but it works for me. The drug laws prevent people from abusing medication. This works in the same way DRM prevents people from pirating. Of course pirates will get the game anyway. But it is the exact same for the medication. There are still drug dealers out there but not as much as if we had no laws. Same with piracy.

Then explain how Spore was on torrents 5 days before its release and even now one of the torrents has approximately 30k people on it, and i am pretty sure there was more several days ago. DRM does not prevent piracy, period. All it does is limit the use of a product that you paid for. EA doesnt want you to sell games but that is a right that is given to customers by law. So what EA is trying to achieve is illegal so they use piracy as an excuse. Lastly, the doctor renewing the medication is designed to protect people because if a wrong person gets medication then shit is going to go down, while DRM can HARM your computer. There were viruses that used DRM software to gain access to your PC, and if you want to uninstall it from your computer after you are done with the game, well, i will let you find out how easy it is to get rid of DRM.

 

I'm not buying this game because of DRM. I don't like to ask for permission to install something that I own. It's none of their business how many times I install something, or if I share it with a friend. I bet that they lose as many customers through this DRM scheme as they gain; and the pirates are playing in complete convenience. *sigh*

Lem_Nx said: I find the argument that DRM is redundant and a nuisance to the average user valid... but I feel the need to use a sarcastic analogy. Please be assured I understand the analogy is flawed. My prescription medicine can only be legally used by me and is only good for three refills before I ask the doctor for a renewal. That is BS, I was prescribed the pills and paid good money to the doctor! I should be able to get a refill as many times as I want! I bought it, it should be mine! I have the right to do whatever I want with the drugs. Now I am angry so I am going to go buy some drugs off the street or just not get the medicine at all! We should remove drug regulation! Doctor = Game company                                                                     Medicine = game                                                                             refill = reinstall  Renewal = Asking Customer Service             Illegal drugs = Piracy   I know that was a HORRENDOUSLY sarcastic analogy, (and much more serious than simple game DRM) but it works for me. The drug laws prevent people from abusing medication. This works in the same way DRM prevents people from pirating. Of course pirates will get the game anyway. But it is the exact same for the medication. There are still drug dealers out there but not as much as if we had no laws. Same with piracy.

I think a better analogy that would fit better would be something more along the lines of me buying a well.  You dig the well, you then buy a water pump for your well.  The water pump is from the "game company", and you install the water pump into the ground.  So if this well dries up, you dig a new well, but the water pump manufacturer restricts you from reinstalling the pump in the new well.  In this case you have the game company (water pump manufacturer), the usable product (water), piracy (selling your water to others) and a restriction of use by a company (reinstalling water pump in new well).

Although this analogy has a flaw in it, but I think it more correctly shows the DRM install situation.

 

largedarryl said: Lem_Nx said: I find the argument that DRM is redundant and a nuisance to the average user valid... but I feel the need to use a sarcastic analogy. Please be assured I understand the analogy is flawed. My prescription medicine can only be legally used by me and is only good for three refills before I ask the doctor for a renewal. That is BS, I was prescribed the pills and paid good money to the doctor! I should be able to get a refill as many times as I want! I bought it, it should be mine! I have the right to do whatever I want with the drugs. Now I am angry so I am going to go buy some drugs off the street or just not get the medicine at all! We should remove drug regulation! Doctor = Game company                                                                     Medicine = game                                                                             refill = reinstall  Renewal = Asking Customer Service             Illegal drugs = Piracy   I know that was a HORRENDOUSLY sarcastic analogy, (and much more serious than simple game DRM) but it works for me. The drug laws prevent people from abusing medication. This works in the same way DRM prevents people from pirating. Of course pirates will get the game anyway. But it is the exact same for the medication. There are still drug dealers out there but not as much as if we had no laws. Same with piracy. I think a better analogy that would fit better would be something more along the lines of me buying a well.  You dig the well, you then buy a water pump for your well.  The water pump is from the "game company", and you install the water pump into the ground.  So if this well dries up, you dig a new well, but the water pump manufacturer restricts you from reinstalling the pump in the new well.  In this case you have the game company (water pump manufacturer), the usable product (water), piracy (selling your water to others) and a restriction of use by a company (reinstalling water pump in new well). Although this analogy has a flaw in it, but I think it more correctly shows the DRM install situation.

 

The water company would have warned you about it at the time of purchase and you would have agreed to it (or not buy the pump) so what exact reason would you have to bitch about it ?

Because it's pointless.... since that's the kind of thing that isn't effected by online downloads? I mean if you needed to be online to install it sure... but i don't see what the 3 download thing accomplishes, other then the fact that the game was designed to run without the CD for some goofy reason.

I mean... if anything Spore is easier to pirate then most games thanks the the DRM and setup of the game.

Well that and i'm the kind of person who reinstalls and deletes games a LOT. I can name about a dozen games i've installed over 3 times.

As for downloading a crack... isn't that illegal?