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Forums - PC Discussion - So why do people hate the dreaded Spore DRM (or any DRM) again?

Conroy said:

With this interface, I can't tell whether to click on the "quote" button above or below the post I'm trying to reply to without scrolling to the top or bottom of the page. Yuck.

twesterm said:

Wow, how my little thread has grown (now of I only had the time read the 70 or so replies I've missed)!

Anyways, copy protection was a huge problem in 1994, so much so that they had something even worse than the dreade DRM.

Every time you started your game they made you look up a specific page, paragraph, and character in the manuel or ask you some very specific question about something in the manual.

That was far worse than any DRM since this was in the days before the internet and you couldn't just look it up.  If you lost your manual you were screwed.

Oh I remember those days.. I would actually prefer that kind of copy protection to this DRM.

1) Nothing extra gets installed onto my machine

2) I can do whatever I want to my machine and the game will still run

3) I don't have to be online to install the game.  (Does SecuROM require you to be online to install or play? I haven't received my copy yet)

4) I don't have to worry about the company shutting down or no longer supporting the game.

 

Actually, if it's going to require you to be online anyway, why don't they just require a login using a cd key to play the game?  This seems more reasonable and less intrusive to me.

I suspect it's because the real reason for the limited install form of DRM has less to do with preventing piracy, and more to do with preventing the game from being loaned, shared, traded, sold, given away or anything that could potentially prevent another legitimate sale.

I'm beginning to think that the anti-piracy excuse is a more or less a screen to conceal this intent.

 



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greenmedic88 said:
Conroy said:

With this interface, I can't tell whether to click on the "quote" button above or below the post I'm trying to reply to without scrolling to the top or bottom of the page. Yuck.

twesterm said:

Wow, how my little thread has grown (now of I only had the time read the 70 or so replies I've missed)!

Anyways, copy protection was a huge problem in 1994, so much so that they had something even worse than the dreade DRM.

Every time you started your game they made you look up a specific page, paragraph, and character in the manuel or ask you some very specific question about something in the manual.

That was far worse than any DRM since this was in the days before the internet and you couldn't just look it up.  If you lost your manual you were screwed.

Oh I remember those days.. I would actually prefer that kind of copy protection to this DRM.

1) Nothing extra gets installed onto my machine

2) I can do whatever I want to my machine and the game will still run

3) I don't have to be online to install the game.  (Does SecuROM require you to be online to install or play? I haven't received my copy yet)

4) I don't have to worry about the company shutting down or no longer supporting the game.

 

Actually, if it's going to require you to be online anyway, why don't they just require a login using a cd key to play the game?  This seems more reasonable and less intrusive to me.

I suspect it's because the real reason for the limited install form of DRM has less to do with preventing piracy, and more to do with preventing the game from being loaned, shared, traded, sold, given away or anything that could potentially prevent another legitimate sale.

I'm beginning to think that the anti-piracy excuse is a more or less a screen to conceal this intent.

 

 

You "loaning" the game without uninstalling it is piracy and that is what DRM is made to stop.  Everyone knows it isn't going to stop people from cracking the DRM and downloading it.



You "loaning" the game without uninstalling it is piracy
WHY?
i do with my product whatever i want.

Ok, for example, i paid and downloaded the game. I paid for this software/game. Now, i can do whatever i want with that software, since i paid for it and now it is mine.
They can try to set copy protection program on that software, it`s their as developers RIGHT.
But i can crack that copy protection program, since it`s my SOFTWARE and i paid for it and have RIGHT to do whatever i want with it.

Again, where is piracy?



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

So long as it's installed on one computer it's not piracy.

If it's on multiple computers, but the game requires the disc to be present to start up, thus preventing the game from running on more than one computer at a time, it's still piracy.

So then deleting the install, loaning the game to someone else (or even just installing it on another computer you own), who then deletes the install when they're done, allowing you to re-install the game upon it's return is 100% legal.

Getting pretty technical?

Technically speaking, most software licenses only allow for the program to be installed on one system, period, otherwise you'd have to purchase a multiple license pack (OS, professional or office productivity), or in the case of games, just buy multiple copies.

I don't know a single gamer who does this. Not one.

How many people have gone on record as stating they want to install the game (or any game they buy) on multiple computers that they own, with the idea in mind that this is well within the software license agreement (which is what the user has really bought), when technically, it is not?



Loaning implies that you're going to get the game back.

Think of it this way-- I loan my buddy Gears because he wants to try it out. Since he is now in possession of it for some amount of time I cannot play it. I'll have to wait until he's done with it. That is what loaning is.

If I were to magically duplicate my copy of Gears and give one to him then that would be against the rules because then we both are using the same game.

There is also nothing wrong with giving a person a game, but you actually have to give it to them. You can't install it and then give it to someone so that you both are in possession of it.

You can ask why but that's just the way things work. You can also say it isn't fair that you would have to use all three installs in order to let a buddy try a game but that's life. Blame the jerks that made piracy so bad in the first place.



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CrazzyMan said:
You "loaning" the game without uninstalling it is piracy
WHY?
i do with my product whatever i want.

Ok, for example, i paid and downloaded the game. I paid for this software/game. Now, i can do whatever i want with that software, since i paid for it and now it is mine.
They can try to set copy protection program on that software, it`s their as developers RIGHT.
But i can crack that copy protection program, since it`s my SOFTWARE and i paid for it and have RIGHT to do whatever i want with it.

Again, where is piracy?

That would be altering the original code, which, as defined by most software user agreements (the legally binding agreements that no one bothers to read), would be illegal.

Call it piracy, product improvement, awesomeness multiplier, whatever; it's still illegal.

You might want to read those user agreements the next time you buy a piece of software. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking a legally binding contract.

When you pay for a game, you're really buying a user license, the terms of which are pretty specificially outlined in legalese. It does not give the user carte blanche to decompile the game or do whatever they want with it.

 



When you pay for a game, you're really buying a user license,
so game is FREE?

Anyway, most console games don`t have those user agreements, so i`m free to do with that game whatever i want, NO?



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

twesterm said:
Loaning implies that you're going to get the game back.

Think of it this way-- I loan my buddy Gears because he wants to try it out. Since he is now in possession of it for some amount of time I cannot play it. I'll have to wait until he's done with it. That is what loaning is.

If I were to magically duplicate my copy of Gears and give one to him then that would be against the rules because then we both are using the same game.

There is also nothing wrong with giving a person a game, but you actually have to give it to them. You can't install it and then give it to someone so that you both are in possession of it.

You can ask why but that's just the way things work. You can also say it isn't fair that you would have to use all three installs in order to let a buddy try a game but that's life. Blame the jerks that made piracy so bad in the first place.

Most PC games require the install disc to be in the disc tray in order to boot up.

Whether that install is on one or more computers makes no difference: it will only run on one computer at a time; the one with the disc.

It's the exact same thing as disc media for a console.

Making copies of that installer disc/key for the purpose of running on multiple systems is clearly illegal.

So the difference between legal use and illegal use is simply having an installed file on a system that is not currently using the game due to the lack of a start up disc.

No need to ask why: I understand as well as anyone else.

But limited installs are to prevent even the legal transfer of games; they clearly aren't targeted at cracked copies in any way shape or form.

If it's that big of an issue to so many people, I don't know why they don't just buy an extra "game" HDD that stores nothing but game installs. Need to reformat your OS HDD? Re-install your OS? No problem. Game installs are untouched.

 

 



CrazzyMan said:
When you pay for a game, you're really buying a user license,
so game is FREE?

Anyway, most console games don`t have those user agreements, so i`m free to do with that game whatever i want, NO?

 

Read the instruction booklet or the tiny text that appears before the game.  They all have it.



CrazzyMan said:
When you pay for a game, you're really buying a user license,
so game is FREE?

Anyway, most console games don`t have those user agreements, so i`m free to do with that game whatever i want, NO?

You're really trying to use ignorance as a means of circumventing a legally binding contract, aren't you.

Read the last two pages of most game manuals, console or not and educate yourself as to exactly what are the terms of your user license.

GTAIV, Oblivion, CoD4, Heavenly Sword, GT5 Prologue, Motorstorm, Bioshock, etc. etc. They all have license agreements, terms of use, etc. some far more detailed than others.

You can do whatever you want with them, but whether you think you're within your legal right wouldn't protect you from being sued and losing in court though.

So no, you're not actually free to do whatever you want with your copy.