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Forums - Gaming - Epic's Fergusson: Xbox 360 'Approaching Upper End' Of Visual Potential

ROFLOL...Xbox 360 is like Batman...No Limits!

I think the 360 will indeed be a 10-year console, unlike the original Xbox. The facts are this, M$ discontinued the original Xbox because that console wasn't built, from the ground-up for optimization and improvements, but instead to establish a beachhead with the Xbox brand. This console WAS, and we are already seeing it with price cuts this year, as M$ gets the price lower and lower. This trend will continue, and imho, as the processor gets smaller and smaller, which will increase yields and cost and power consumption, making the console smaller and faster. I think we could even see a Xbox 360, V.2 with slightly more ram and vram to decrease load times and what not. M$ is the world leader in application software, and they are kings of software optimization, which means that Xbox will continue to get faster and faster and developer will have a larger sandbox to play in.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

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ZenfoldorVGI said:
forevercloud3000 said:

 

What I pretty much get from this is that the 360 may be reaching it's visual limits. yet this does not mean that newer games can't look better, it is still more about how you use the hardware. Nevertheless this will only get the system so far.

Discuss....

 

You've completely misinterrupreted the quote, and spun in so that it appears to further your anti-360, pro-PS3 agenda, which apparently should be expected.

At the very least, assuming you would actually argue that you didn't spin this pro-Sony, you've created a negative news article with the soul purpose of degrading a console you dislike, which is in itself, unfortunate.

The PS3 is the more powerful console, sure, but these "gotcha" games are getting old, and racing to get them out first, in order to spin them, is childish and indicative.


Sensitivity To Criticism: Although fans who feel inferior “know” their console has shortcomings, they do not like other people to point this out.  They tend to perceive any form of criticism, regardless of how sensitively or constructively it is presented, as a personal attack.

Hypercritical Attitude: People who do not feel good about their console, have trouble feeling good about anyone elses.  They look hard for flaws and shortcomings of others to try to convince themselves that theirs really isn’t so bad after all.  These people cannot feel their console is intelligent, attractive, competent, etc., unless it is the most intelligent, attractive and competent console around.

Inappropriate Response To Flattery:  This can work two ways.  Some people are desperate to hear anything good about their console and will be constantly fishing for compliments.  Others may refuse to listen to anything positive about it because it is inconsistent with their own feelings.

Tendency Toward Blaming:  Some people project their perceived console weaknesses onto others in order to lessen the pain of feeling inferior about their machine or company.  From here, it is only a short step to blaming others for one’s failures. IE Moneyhatting, casual gaming, ect.

Feelings Of Persecution: Carried to its extreme, blaming others can extend to believing that others are actively seeking to ruin your console.  If a man is fired from his job, for example, it may comfort him to believe that his boss was out to get him.  It allows him to avoid personal responsibility for his failure.

Negative Feelings About Competition: People who feel they have an inferior console like to win real arguments every bit as much as anyone else, but they tend to avoid such confrontations, and instead troll, because deep down, they believe they cannot win.  And not coming in first is clear evidence of total failure. IE they make negative topics about other consoles, rather than positive ones about their own.

Tendency Toward Seclusiveness And Timidity:  Because people with an inferiority complex believe that their consoles are not as interesting or as relevant as others, they believe that other people will feel the same way about them.  So they tend to avoid social attachments on forums, and when they are forced to converse with others, they will avoid speaking proudly about their console, because they believe doing so will only provide an embarrassing demonstration of their console's percieved dullness. Thus, often these individuals will relegate their social interactions to insultive and premeditated trolling.

OMG what is with you people! I should have known the rant squad would be on patrol the second I posted this. I said nothing inflamatory whats so ever. What I read is that he feels that the 360 may have reached the cieling of it's power, but just like the PS2 they must start to find alternate routes in order to better the games. This is not a bad thing whatsoever. I didn't imply it to be bad either. It means they are still innovating within the systems limitations. Yet the truth of the matter is the cieling is visible to them at this point.

 



      

      

      

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Squilliam said:
Insanestalker2 said:
Squilliam said:
forevercloud3000 said:
disolitude said:
Once they figure out how to unleash the ultimate PS3 power...I suggest they redo all the games that have come out thus far, becasue very few of them look better than 360 while some look worse.

 

That will happen when a company cuts corners, starts on the weaker system which works entirely different, and generally acts as if they don't care about the PS audience. Now that the PS3 has proven a formidable opponent and sales are leaning towards Sony, companies have to make their stuff look more appealing for the system.

We could only dream of developers doing something like that. I would love it, but it is highly unlikely.

You know, if the PS3 is the weaker system it makes sense to use it as the lead platform because everything the PS3 can do the Xbox 360 would be able to do as well! It makes creating equal games easier as you don't have to scale the assets to fit from the Xbox 360 version to the PS3 version which has less available memory for instance.

 

lol, bolded part is true. However, IF you compare the max polygons the two can dish out based on ram, the ps3 much more efficient. 275m for ps3, using 256mb ram. 500m for 360 using 512mb ram. It does look like the 360 can dish out more. However, a developer cannot just use all the ram on the graphics, how about the game. Based on this the 360 would need to use 55% of its ram to keep up with the ps3 in graphics. That leaves 45%, or 230.4mb ram for the game, while the ps3 has another 256mb ram just for this. With a much more superior cpu, theoretically, the 360 can't handle a game that pushes the ps3. Anyways, there aren't many devs that will do this, and to me its just going against making a profit by doing this. Making multiplatform games make more profit if the game is good(or so I believe).

 

WTF! Lol, I just reread this. It doesn't make any sense.

Total Ram - 512 mb unified + 10mb fast EDRAM for the frame buffer which means realistically that ram is worth more than the 522mb indicates. Furthermore theres a hardware tesselator which hasn't been used which can save at least 20mb of video ram (Very conservative)

The PS3 has about 5% less ram once you add the EDRAM and take into account the higher OS useage. Then you have to contend with the fact that the ram isn't unified so can't be used as flexibly. Thats ignoring the tesselator btw.

Thats why a PS3 engine is an easy fit into the Xbox 360 architecture due to the small size advantage for the Xbox 360 memory pool. 

 

I don't know where you are getting the 5% less ram from, is it comparing total ram, or ram that the gpu can use. Total ram would be around 2%. Also if it is gpu dedicated ram then the ps3 is 49% (256ps3,522xbox360), which is a 1% change from 50%. Granted I don't know much about the tesselator and I don't know much about how much work load the cell processor can take off of the gpu. I guess this puts my statement earlier as "wrong" since I don't know enough about either.

 



Soriku said:
Doesn't matter since HD exclusives are almost dead anyway.

 

They are?  They just announced Ninja Blada another HD exclusive and then you say something like that?



forevercloud3000 said:

OMG what is with you people! I should have known the rant squad would be on patrol the second I posted this. I said nothing inflamatory whats so ever. What I read is that he feels that the 360 may have reached the cieling of it's power, but just like the PS2 they must start to find alternate routes in order to better the games. This is not a bad thing whatsoever. I didn't imply it to be bad either. It means they are still innovating within the systems limitations. Yet the truth of the matter is the cieling is visible to them at this point.

 

 

You know, the article you posted mentioned games coming out in 2010.  All this sounds logical because it's typically said that a console last for 5 years until the next gen rolls around or that console is replaced by its predecesor.  And to think developers will max out the 360's raw resources by that time is VERY reasonable since the 360 was first released in 2005.  We don't know what I'll happen by then, but it is a fair, logical, and reasonable assessment.  Apparently some people are having a problem with it.  Go figure.



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I Love my PS3 but ther cell is the cpu not the gpu gpu's do graphics cpus crunch #s the Ps3 biggest bottleneck is its gpu! hence all the power of the cell is held in check by what the gpu and memmory constraints of the system have been delt.

the guy from resistence stated that the 6 spu's being used will take aload off the gpu in running seperate programs like how birds act and different stuff like that so more can happen on screen. but more isnt better effects and graphics its just more stuff. so unless the gpu's is upraded the 360 will always be close visually, content of games may include more stuff going on but graphics wont be better.



last but not least this thread is taking a guy out of context and saying thats it visually for the 360 when the guy quoted never said that.

nice flame war atempt.



Soriku said:
Doesn't matter since HD exclusives are almost dead anyway.

Don't be ignorant. First-party games will always be available to take advantage of a system's individual advantages.



Soriku said:
Doesn't matter since HD exclusives are almost dead anyway.

 

PS3

*insert long list of first party titles here*

I dont think so at all. Gran Turismo, God of War, etc.



Insanestalker2 said:
Squilliam said:

WTF! Lol, I just reread this. It doesn't make any sense.

Total Ram - 512 mb unified + 10mb fast EDRAM for the frame buffer which means realistically that ram is worth more than the 522mb indicates. Furthermore theres a hardware tesselator which hasn't been used which can save at least 20mb of video ram (Very conservative)

The PS3 has about 5% less ram once you add the EDRAM and take into account the higher OS useage. Then you have to contend with the fact that the ram isn't unified so can't be used as flexibly. Thats ignoring the tesselator btw.

Thats why a PS3 engine is an easy fit into the Xbox 360 architecture due to the small size advantage for the Xbox 360 memory pool. 

 

I don't know where you are getting the 5% less ram from, is it comparing total ram, or ram that the gpu can use. Total ram would be around 2%. Also if it is gpu dedicated ram then the ps3 is 49% (256ps3,522xbox360), which is a 1% change from 50%. Granted I don't know much about the tesselator and I don't know much about how much work load the cell processor can take off of the gpu. I guess this puts my statement earlier as "wrong" since I don't know enough about either.

 

Memory pool Xbox 360 = 512 + 10 - 14 = 508 mb (System + ED ram - OS usage)

Memory pool PS3 = 512 - 30 = 482 mb (System - OS usage)

Therefore the Xbox 360 has 5.1% more ram available.

In terms of efficiency the Xbox 360 software on the system side uses less ram due to the overhead of utilizing more cores on the PS3. As SPE coding requires more lines of code as well the overall memory usage of the PS3 for the same code is higher.

 

 



Tease.