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Forums - Gaming - Epic's Fergusson: Xbox 360 'Approaching Upper End' Of Visual Potential

Insanestalker2 said:
Squilliam said:
forevercloud3000 said:
disolitude said:
Once they figure out how to unleash the ultimate PS3 power...I suggest they redo all the games that have come out thus far, becasue very few of them look better than 360 while some look worse.

 

That will happen when a company cuts corners, starts on the weaker system which works entirely different, and generally acts as if they don't care about the PS audience. Now that the PS3 has proven a formidable opponent and sales are leaning towards Sony, companies have to make their stuff look more appealing for the system.

We could only dream of developers doing something like that. I would love it, but it is highly unlikely.

You know, if the PS3 is the weaker system it makes sense to use it as the lead platform because everything the PS3 can do the Xbox 360 would be able to do as well! It makes creating equal games easier as you don't have to scale the assets to fit from the Xbox 360 version to the PS3 version which has less available memory for instance.

 

lol, bolded part is true. However, IF you compare the max polygons the two can dish out based on ram, the ps3 much more efficient. 275m for ps3, using 256mb ram. 500m for 360 using 512mb ram. It does look like the 360 can dish out more. However, a developer cannot just use all the ram on the graphics, how about the game. Based on this the 360 would need to use 55% of its ram to keep up with the ps3 in graphics. That leaves 45%, or 230.4mb ram for the game, while the ps3 has another 256mb ram just for this. With a much more superior cpu, theoretically, the 360 can't handle a game that pushes the ps3. Anyways, there aren't many devs that will do this, and to me its just going against making a profit by doing this. Making multiplatform games make more profit if the game is good(or so I believe).

 

WTF! Lol, I just reread this. It doesn't make any sense.

Total Ram - 512 mb unified + 10mb fast EDRAM for the frame buffer which means realistically that ram is worth more than the 522mb indicates. Furthermore theres a hardware tesselator which hasn't been used which can save at least 20mb of video ram (Very conservative)

The PS3 has about 5% less ram once you add the EDRAM and take into account the higher OS useage. Then you have to contend with the fact that the ram isn't unified so can't be used as flexibly. Thats ignoring the tesselator btw.

Thats why a PS3 engine is an easy fit into the Xbox 360 architecture due to the small size advantage for the Xbox 360 memory pool. 

 



Tease.

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The first line is quoted saying "I mean, Im not the technical guy". I stopped reading right there. Uhhhh....... if your not the technical guy, than please do not speak as if you know the potential or lack of potential that future 360 products may or may not have graphically or "Technically".

How long was the PS2 out when FFXII came. That game pushed the bar and tapped potential unheard of on the PS2's "so called" graphical level. So, lets wait and see what churns up for both systems 2-3 years from now and discuss in detail.



Squilliam said:
forevercloud3000 said:
disolitude said:
Once they figure out how to unleash the ultimate PS3 power...I suggest they redo all the games that have come out thus far, becasue very few of them look better than 360 while some look worse.

 

That will happen when a company cuts corners, starts on the weaker system which works entirely different, and generally acts as if they don't care about the PS audience. Now that the PS3 has proven a formidable opponent and sales are leaning towards Sony, companies have to make their stuff look more appealing for the system.

We could only dream of developers doing something like that. I would love it, but it is highly unlikely.

You know, if the PS3 is the weaker system it makes sense to use it as the lead platform because everything the PS3 can do the Xbox 360 would be able to do as well! It makes creating equal games easier as you don't have to scale the assets to fit from the Xbox 360 version to the PS3 version which has less available memory for instance.

 

 

.............No..........



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

S.T.A.G.E. said:
forevercloud3000 said:
mysticD said:
You need reading comprehension or may be take out your fanboy's glasses.

 

how so? What do you see? If you dont have a better deduction then you have no right to critisize mine....

 

 He's right. You did read it wrong. What the guy meant when he said that was that he expects bigger things to come from the 360. He cant wait especially to see how graphically the games look around 2010.

 

what I got from it is that he feels they are seeing limitations within the hardware now, yet it still has a little ways to go before it is COMPLETELY tapped out. He goes into how developers are going to have to start being really creative in order to push there games any further on the system.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

how many game developers have a 100 mill to spend on a game gta4.. most expensive game ever developed didnt even use the 360 to the max so its going to cost them alot of money to make a game that will use it to the fullest



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cattmanndann said:
how many game developers have a 100 mill to spend on a game gta4.. most expensive game ever developed didnt even use the 360 to the max so its going to cost them alot of money to make a game that will use it to the fullest

 

GTA only cost that much because of MASSIVE marketing, it was beeing built for two systems, Grade A cameo voice casting. Not because it was that technologically advanced in any way. It was great, but not innovative in any way like Assassin's Creed, Crackdown, Infamous, MGS4, these are innovative sandbox games/sanbox quality.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Squilliam said:
Insanestalker2 said:
Squilliam said:
forevercloud3000 said:
disolitude said:
Once they figure out how to unleash the ultimate PS3 power...I suggest they redo all the games that have come out thus far, becasue very few of them look better than 360 while some look worse.

 

That will happen when a company cuts corners, starts on the weaker system which works entirely different, and generally acts as if they don't care about the PS audience. Now that the PS3 has proven a formidable opponent and sales are leaning towards Sony, companies have to make their stuff look more appealing for the system.

We could only dream of developers doing something like that. I would love it, but it is highly unlikely.

You know, if the PS3 is the weaker system it makes sense to use it as the lead platform because everything the PS3 can do the Xbox 360 would be able to do as well! It makes creating equal games easier as you don't have to scale the assets to fit from the Xbox 360 version to the PS3 version which has less available memory for instance.

 

lol, bolded part is true. However, IF you compare the max polygons the two can dish out based on ram, the ps3 much more efficient. 275m for ps3, using 256mb ram. 500m for 360 using 512mb ram. It does look like the 360 can dish out more. However, a developer cannot just use all the ram on the graphics, how about the game. Based on this the 360 would need to use 55% of its ram to keep up with the ps3 in graphics. That leaves 45%, or 230.4mb ram for the game, while the ps3 has another 256mb ram just for this. With a much more superior cpu, theoretically, the 360 can't handle a game that pushes the ps3. Anyways, there aren't many devs that will do this, and to me its just going against making a profit by doing this. Making multiplatform games make more profit if the game is good(or so I believe).

 

WTF! Lol, I just reread this. It doesn't make any sense.

Total Ram - 512 mb unified + 10mb fast EDRAM for the frame buffer which means realistically that ram is worth more than the 522mb indicates. Furthermore theres a hardware tesselator which hasn't been used which can save at least 20mb of video ram (Very conservative)

The PS3 has about 5% less ram once you add the EDRAM and take into account the higher OS useage. Then you have to contend with the fact that the ram isn't unified so can't be used as flexibly. Thats ignoring the tesselator btw.

Thats why a PS3 engine is an easy fit into the Xbox 360 architecture due to the small size advantage for the Xbox 360 memory pool. 

 

Yes...RAM is the only thing that determines visual potential.

 



forevercloud3000 said:
mysticD said:
You need reading comprehension or may be take out your fanboy's glasses.

 

how so? What do you see? If you dont have a better deduction then you have no right to critisize mine....

 

mysticD points out that you failed to comprehend what was said and you still can't figure it out?   I put the quotes you don't seem to be able to appreciate in bold to make it easier for you.

"I mean, I'm not the technical guy... all I know is that with the two to three more years of optimization that we've had, we're much further along than I think, three years ago, we thought we were going to get.

So I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress. 

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."



forevercloud3000 said:

 

What I pretty much get from this is that the 360 may be reaching it's visual limits. yet this does not mean that newer games can't look better, it is still more about how you use the hardware. Nevertheless this will only get the system so far.

Discuss....

 

You've completely misinterrupreted the quote, and spun in so that it appears to further your anti-360, pro-PS3 agenda, which apparently should be expected.

At the very least, assuming you would actually argue that you didn't spin this pro-Sony, you've created a negative news article with the soul purpose of degrading a console you dislike, which is in itself, unfortunate.

The PS3 is the more powerful console, sure, but these "gotcha" games are getting old, and racing to get them out first, in order to spin them, is childish and indicative.


Sensitivity To Criticism: Although fans who feel inferior “know” their console has shortcomings, they do not like other people to point this out.  They tend to perceive any form of criticism, regardless of how sensitively or constructively it is presented, as a personal attack.

Hypercritical Attitude: People who do not feel good about their console, have trouble feeling good about anyone elses.  They look hard for flaws and shortcomings of others to try to convince themselves that theirs really isn’t so bad after all.  These people cannot feel their console is intelligent, attractive, competent, etc., unless it is the most intelligent, attractive and competent console around.

Inappropriate Response To Flattery:  This can work two ways.  Some people are desperate to hear anything good about their console and will be constantly fishing for compliments.  Others may refuse to listen to anything positive about it because it is inconsistent with their own feelings.

Tendency Toward Blaming:  Some people project their perceived console weaknesses onto others in order to lessen the pain of feeling inferior about their machine or company.  From here, it is only a short step to blaming others for one’s failures. IE Moneyhatting, casual gaming, ect.

Feelings Of Persecution: Carried to its extreme, blaming others can extend to believing that others are actively seeking to ruin your console.  If a man is fired from his job, for example, it may comfort him to believe that his boss was out to get him.  It allows him to avoid personal responsibility for his failure.

Negative Feelings About Competition: People who feel they have an inferior console like to win real arguments every bit as much as anyone else, but they tend to avoid such confrontations, and instead troll, because deep down, they believe they cannot win.  And not coming in first is clear evidence of total failure. IE they make negative topics about other consoles, rather than positive ones about their own.

Tendency Toward Seclusiveness And Timidity:  Because people with an inferiority complex believe that their consoles are not as interesting or as relevant as others, they believe that other people will feel the same way about them.  So they tend to avoid social attachments on forums, and when they are forced to converse with others, they will avoid speaking proudly about their console, because they believe doing so will only provide an embarrassing demonstration of their console's percieved dullness. Thus, often these individuals will relegate their social interactions to insultive and premeditated trolling.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Squilliam said:
forevercloud3000 said:
disolitude said:
Once they figure out how to unleash the ultimate PS3 power...I suggest they redo all the games that have come out thus far, becasue very few of them look better than 360 while some look worse.

 

That will happen when a company cuts corners, starts on the weaker system which works entirely different, and generally acts as if they don't care about the PS audience. Now that the PS3 has proven a formidable opponent and sales are leaning towards Sony, companies have to make their stuff look more appealing for the system.

We could only dream of developers doing something like that. I would love it, but it is highly unlikely.

You know, if the PS3 is the weaker system it makes sense to use it as the lead platform because everything the PS3 can do the Xbox 360 would be able to do as well! It makes creating equal games easier as you don't have to scale the assets to fit from the Xbox 360 version to the PS3 version which has less available memory for instance.

 

Not weaker, not less available memory, but I'm sure you actually know that already.

360 has been out longer and is easier up front to program for.  Both systems has room for improvement over current levels via optimization.  PS3 has more. <--true