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Forums - Gaming - The PS2's success apears to be holding the PS3 back.

S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.

 

It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

Before you jump on him, check out the multiplat sports games differentials on the 360 and PS3. The PS2 is a thorn in the PS3's side, even though it gives Sony extra money. If they want the PS3 to get more support from the PS2 installed base, then they need to end the PS2 and allow the next gen systems to expand.

 


Yea...that's if you assume that all those people will go from the PS2 to the PS3.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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johnsobas said:
Million said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.


It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

No i disagree it's not quite apparent , the Wii's install base may create that illusion but I believe that the Wii userbase is that large because of new demographics not because Nintendo stole existing ones it's really a combination of both consisting largley of the newer demographic. Unless you have evidence to the contrary I think i'll stay in my opinion.

Can't prove it completely, though you certainly don't have any good evidence.  NPD survey says PS2 owners are choosing the wii, Japan sales show clearly people are choosing the wii, with wii sales 3 to 1 over PS3 there is no way there is that many new gamers.

 

 

Exactly how big was this survey ? I don't remember being asked and i'm a PS2 owner.




Million said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.


It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

No i disagree it's not quite apparent , the Wii's install base may create that illusion but I believe that the Wii userbase is that large because of new demographics not because Nintendo stole existing ones it's really a combination of both consisting largley of the newer demographic. Unless you have evidence to the contrary I think i'll stay in my opinion.

Can't prove it completely, though you certainly don't have any good evidence. NPD survey says PS2 owners are choosing the wii, Japan sales show clearly people are choosing the wii, with wii sales 3 to 1 over PS3 there is no way there is that many new gamers.

 

 

Exactly how big was this survey ? I don't remember being asked and i'm a PS2 owner.

 


I dunno, hopefully someone can dig that up it's probably a month or 2 old.  Regardless, I don't know what makes you think that the ps2 owners that still haven't jumped into this gen after about 2 years (3 if you think 360) are more likely to choose the ps3.  What could they possibly be doing?  They are obviously not hardcore gamers.  There have been very few good games the last 2 years on the ps2 in the west, there have been some from Japan.  Do you really think this is the kind of demographic that will flock to the ps3?

In Japan as the PS2 software and hardware sales have been dying the PS3 sales have not been rising so I don't think you have any argument there.

 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Million said:
mrstickball said:
Actually, the PS3 version is doing great. According to VGC, it's abot 350,000 unit sales below the X360 version, despite the X360 having more than twice the instal base.

So the PS2 isn't holding the PS3 back. The PS3 is holding the PS3 back. After all, why didn't the PS1 hold the PS2 back for anything? Consumers made the transition quickly, and effortlessly....Maybe it's because the PS3 is an inferior product to the X360/Wii comparison as opposed to the GC/XB comparison last gen, and users are having a harder time jumping onto a sinking ship?

 

With the recent performance of the PS3 your sinking ship analogy is some what invalid. I believe that the Wii/360 are intense competition for the PS3 but that still doesn't eliminate brand loyalty (brand loyalty which enabled the PS3 to sell in europe last year without any games and the loyalty which enables the PS3 to sell in japan with lackluster support)

people seem to believe that the Wii's success kills any chance of the PS2 owners wanting to jump to PS3 but I disagree , I think Nintendo's strategy of targeting every gaming audience makes it very difficult for them to apeal to a core gaming audiences in the same way the PS3 & 360 is able to.


I think the 360 struggles to differentiate itself as console and fails to completley offer itself as an alternative to the playstation brand , the only time the 360 has been able to outsell the PS3 recently is through price cuts .(yes the PS3 has had more price cuts but let's keep price point in mind ).

 

My main point is that despite the success of the Wii and the XBOX brands new found dominance , the playstation brand still has something unique and different to offer to the PS2 userbase , if any other current gen console had software support as bad as the PS3's or a price point as high as the PS3's i'm sure 100% that console would have failed to succeed. It's brand loyalty that helped the PS3 survive but it's the PS2 that limits the continued growth of the PS3, it's still a very viable option for gaming even against what this gen has to offer.

Your argument is flawed because you accept PS3 numbers as successful, yet what is success??? So far, from Sony's stand point of view it appears that success is selling more than 360. If so, then yes, you're right that the PS3 is successful, however in the eyes of the market the PS3 is a failure because its failing to deliver what PS2 did where as the wii, the truly dominant console, its having the same success with surpassing numbers.

Then you point out Wii success will not kill any opportunity of PS2 owners jumping to the PS3. I ask you, how can you prove that? Are you going physically ask person to person that owns a PS2 whether they will get a Wii or a PS3? That paragraph is totally irrelevant and all it does is to state that Wii is the one and only successful console.

 Finally, you claim that your main point is the success of the Wii and Xbox brands and then it contradicts itself with brand loyalty. Again, can you prove that brand loyalty is making the PS3 a sucess? Not quite because it sure isn't putting it at Wii's level of sales or at least PS2 levels. It also contraditcs your very own original posst where you seem to be basing success only on sales, whereas you want to base it on a manner that cannot be measured (brand loyalty).



What are you looking at, nerd?
johnsobas said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.

 

It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

Before you jump on him, check out the multiplat sports games differentials on the 360 and PS3. The PS2 is a thorn in the PS3's side, even though it gives Sony extra money. If they want the PS3 to get more support from the PS2 installed base, then they need to end the PS2 and allow the next gen systems to expand.

 


Yea...that's if you assume that all those people will go from the PS2 to the PS3.

You can expect a percentage to go to the PS3. If the PS2 customers get cut off they will use up the PS2 to its fill and need a new gaming experience. It doesn't matter who they go to, Sony needs to drop it.

 



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i don't think PS2 demand is holding back the sales of the PS3



StanGable said:
Million said:
mrstickball said:
Actually, the PS3 version is doing great. According to VGC, it's abot 350,000 unit sales below the X360 version, despite the X360 having more than twice the instal base.

So the PS2 isn't holding the PS3 back. The PS3 is holding the PS3 back. After all, why didn't the PS1 hold the PS2 back for anything? Consumers made the transition quickly, and effortlessly....Maybe it's because the PS3 is an inferior product to the X360/Wii comparison as opposed to the GC/XB comparison last gen, and users are having a harder time jumping onto a sinking ship?

 

With the recent performance of the PS3 your sinking ship analogy is some what invalid. I believe that the Wii/360 are intense competition for the PS3 but that still doesn't eliminate brand loyalty (brand loyalty which enabled the PS3 to sell in europe last year without any games and the loyalty which enables the PS3 to sell in japan with lackluster support)

people seem to believe that the Wii's success kills any chance of the PS2 owners wanting to jump to PS3 but I disagree , I think Nintendo's strategy of targeting every gaming audience makes it very difficult for them to apeal to a core gaming audiences in the same way the PS3 & 360 is able to.


I think the 360 struggles to differentiate itself as console and fails to completley offer itself as an alternative to the playstation brand , the only time the 360 has been able to outsell the PS3 recently is through price cuts .(yes the PS3 has had more price cuts but let's keep price point in mind ).

 

My main point is that despite the success of the Wii and the XBOX brands new found dominance , the playstation brand still has something unique and different to offer to the PS2 userbase , if any other current gen console had software support as bad as the PS3's or a price point as high as the PS3's i'm sure 100% that console would have failed to succeed. It's brand loyalty that helped the PS3 survive but it's the PS2 that limits the continued growth of the PS3, it's still a very viable option for gaming even against what this gen has to offer.

Your argument is flawed because you accept PS3 numbers as successful, yet what is success??? So far, from Sony's stand point of view it appears that success is selling more than 360. If so, then yes, you're right that the PS3 is successful, however in the eyes of the market the PS3 is a failure because its failing to deliver what PS2 did where as the wii, the truly dominant console, its having the same success with surpassing numbers.

Then you point out Wii success will not kill any opportunity of PS2 owners jumping to the PS3. I ask you, how can you prove that? Are you going physically ask person to person that owns a PS2 whether they will get a Wii or a PS3? That paragraph is totally irrelevant and all it does is to state that Wii is the one and only successful console.

 Finally, you claim that your main point is the success of the Wii and Xbox brands and then it contradicts itself with brand loyalty. Again, can you prove that brand loyalty is making the PS3 a sucess? Not quite because it sure isn't putting it at Wii's level of sales or at least PS2 levels. It also contraditcs your very own original posst where you seem to be basing success only on sales, whereas you want to base it on a manner that cannot be measured (brand loyalty).

 

Your changing my arguments so you can counter them for your convenience ,read my arguments properly and then counter them. I wont debate with you if you won't read properly.




S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.

 

It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

Before you jump on him, check out the multiplat sports games differentials on the 360 and PS3. The PS2 is a thorn in the PS3's side, even though it gives Sony extra money. If they want the PS3 to get more support from the PS2 installed base, then they need to end the PS2 and allow the next gen systems to expand.

 


Yea...that's if you assume that all those people will go from the PS2 to the PS3.

You can expect a percentage to go to the PS3. If the PS2 customers get cut off they will use up the PS2 to its fill and need a new gaming experience. It doesn't matter who they go to, Sony needs to drop it.

 

Cut them off from what?  Sony moved on a long time ago.  The only games that are being released are games that would have no chance on the PS3 or multi-platform games.  Are you saying that Sony should pull the ps2 from stores and ban 3rd parties from releasing games for it?  I don't think that would go over very well, and there are so many ps2 systems out there that used system sales would continue anyway.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

johnsobas said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.

 

It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

Before you jump on him, check out the multiplat sports games differentials on the 360 and PS3. The PS2 is a thorn in the PS3's side, even though it gives Sony extra money. If they want the PS3 to get more support from the PS2 installed base, then they need to end the PS2 and allow the next gen systems to expand.

 


Yea...that's if you assume that all those people will go from the PS2 to the PS3.

You can expect a percentage to go to the PS3. If the PS2 customers get cut off they will use up the PS2 to its fill and need a new gaming experience. It doesn't matter who they go to, Sony needs to drop it.

 

Cut them off from what?  Sony moved on a long time ago.  The only games that are being released are games that would have no chance on the PS3 or multi-platform games.  Are you saying that Sony should pull the ps2 from stores and ban 3rd parties from releasing games for it?  I don't think that would go over very well, and there are so many ps2 systems out there that used system sales would continue anyway.

What Sony did last gen is no different than what they are going to do this gen with then 10 year plan. They need to cut the PS2, to ensure that more people will come to the PS3 when the serious price cuts occur after. For what they've done they have already had to cut the production costs down by half. I think that Sony should allow the rest of the shipped PS2's to sell and end the shipping of that model. PSP's can stay, because they're handhelds. This has caused a huge disproportion of consumer spending in the industry. The money is flying around everywhere and not being accounted for where it should count in this gen. I loved the PS2, I still have mine, but for the sake of the newer gen it needs to be ended, because compared to installed base, sales are horrible.

 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
johnsobas said:
Million said:

Looking at the statistics for the lattest madden game

Madden 09

the XBOX 360 sold 0.9 Million

the PS2 0.57+ PS3 0.35 Sold 0.9 Million

 

Madden 08

 

XBOX 360 Sold 2.3 Million

PS3 0.8 M + PS2 2.2 Mil = 3 Mill.

 

Between 08 and 09 it's apparent that some of the PS2 fanbase has move to the 360 and Wii ( i'm guessing more 360 than Wii) but a larger percentage of next gen adopters have stayed with the Playstation brand (not neccaserily exclusivley). Between 08 and 09 we see a shift of sales , the PS3 accounting for more overall sales than the last madden.

It apears the success of the PS2 is both a saving graces for Sony ( in terms of profitability) and a limiting factor of the PS3 , the PS2 is just too good to die at this moment in time meaning that the adoption of the PS3 is slower than it otherwise would have been if the PS2 flopped following the releases of the PS3.

 

It's quite apparent that more of the ps2 owners are going to the wii than the 360. If you're using madden sales as a comparison obviously it's going to be very biased toward the 360.

 

Before you jump on him, check out the multiplat sports games differentials on the 360 and PS3. The PS2 is a thorn in the PS3's side, even though it gives Sony extra money. If they want the PS3 to get more support from the PS2 installed base, then they need to end the PS2 and allow the next gen systems to expand.

 


Yea...that's if you assume that all those people will go from the PS2 to the PS3.

You can expect a percentage to go to the PS3. If the PS2 customers get cut off they will use up the PS2 to its fill and need a new gaming experience. It doesn't matter who they go to, Sony needs to drop it.

 

Cut them off from what? Sony moved on a long time ago. The only games that are being released are games that would have no chance on the PS3 or multi-platform games. Are you saying that Sony should pull the ps2 from stores and ban 3rd parties from releasing games for it? I don't think that would go over very well, and there are so many ps2 systems out there that used system sales would continue anyway.

What Sony did last gen is no different than what they are going to do this gen with then 10 year plan. They need to cut the PS2, to ensure that more people will come to the PS3 when the serious price cuts occur after. For what they've done they have already had to cut the production costs down by half. I think that Sony should allow the rest of the shipped PS2's to sell and end the shipping of that model. PSP's can stay, because they're handhelds. This has caused a huge disproportion of consumer funds in the industry. The money is flying around everywhere and not being accounted for where it should count in this gen. I loved the PS2, I still have mine, but for the sake of the newer gen it needs to be ended, because compared to installed base, sales are horrible.

 

Why do you think that people wanting to buy the ps2 8 years after it came out are the same people that want to buy the ps3?

 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X