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Forums - Gaming - Ten Golden Rules of videogame piracy

Garcian Smith said:
Kasz216 said:

 

I disagree... the closest common analog would be if someone bought Rice Crispy Treats... and then copied the recipe, made Rice Crispy Treats and gave them away.

Which actually isn't illegal to my knowledge. Only if they sold it... I think maybe.

There is a great story about Pepsi reporting a guy who tried to sell them Coke's secret Recipes.

Piracy is just illegal because it's so easy.

Or for the pirate. Getting your baked goods from your friend instead of your local bakery because they are of the same quality and the baked goods you are getting are free.

 


As per the Rice Krispy Treats analogy: That analogy is far, far too simplistic, but perhaps it can be salvaged. Say that the individual Rice Krispy grain represents a byte of information. Now, say that the creator of the first Rice Krispie Treat - we'll call him The Krispy King - organized those grains in such a way that, when organized in that exact manner, they produce something that is greater than the whole - not just a bundle of Rice Krispies, but a well-engineered, cohesive snack treat that he spent millions of dollars moulding into that exact shape.

Now, nobody starting from scratch could duplicate that exact Treat unless they, too, poured millions of dollars and thousands upon thousands of man-hours of dev-time into their own Treat. Furthermore, The KK begins to release exact replicas of this Krispy, with all of the byte-grains arranged in the exact same manner, to the public for, say, $5 each.

However, bad things start to happen when Jim-Bob in Dubuque, IN invents the Krispy Duplicator program. This program allows Jim-Bob, and anyone else who downloads the program, to duplicate any Rice Krispy, exactly how it was. Jim-Bob offers the "KD" online for free. Soon, Jim-Bob gets ahold of The KK's particular Krispy design and begins to duplicate it, offering up the duplicated Treats for free.

Potential consumers of Rice Krispy Treats now have two options: They can either buy from The KK, spending $5 in the process, or they can take one from Jim-Bob for free. Which do you think they'll do? The answer, of course, is that, whether or not they would have originally paid $5 for The KK's Treat, they'll just take one for free from Jim-Bob instead.

As you can see, though it may seem counter-intuitive if you haven't thought it through, there is a reason why copyright infringement - or piracy, if you prefer - is illegal. It protects innovators like The Krispy King from bankruptcy, while preventing people like Jim-Bob from enriching themselves at The KK's expense. In other words, to borrow a phrase, it enables a man to be entitled to the sweat of his own brow.

Do you understand now?

 

First off, I did read your other post, and the fact that the only thing you could muster in response was some half-assed attempt at a witty remark pretty much says it all.

Second, why do you keep bringing up legality? Just because something's illegal doesn't make it wrong, nor does something being legal make it right.

Unless someone is selling bootleg media for a profit, then they certainly aren't enriching themselves in any way, shape, or form, no matter how you try to spin it.

 



 

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Lord N said:

 

First off, I did read your other post, and the fact that the only thing you could muster in response was some half-assed attempt at a witty remark pretty much says it all.

Second, why do you keep bringing up legality? Just because something's illegal doesn't make it wrong, nor does something being legal make it right.

Unless someone is selling bootleg media for a profit, then they certainly aren't enriching themselves in any way, shape, or form, no matter how you try to spin it.

 

 

  1. So you're saying cheating people out of their hard earned money is right then?
  2. You could say you're enriching yourself by saving $60 on a game since you are in fact stealing it.


Garcian Smith said:
Kasz216 said:

 

I disagree... the closest common analog would be if someone bought Rice Crispy Treats... and then copied the recipe, made Rice Crispy Treats and gave them away.

Which actually isn't illegal to my knowledge. Only if they sold it... I think maybe.

There is a great story about Pepsi reporting a guy who tried to sell them Coke's secret Recipes.

Piracy is just illegal because it's so easy.

Or for the pirate. Getting your baked goods from your friend instead of your local bakery because they are of the same quality and the baked goods you are getting are free.

 


As per the Rice Krispy Treats analogy: That analogy is far, far too simplistic, but perhaps it can be salvaged. Say that the individual Rice Krispy grain represents a byte of information. Now, say that the creator of the first Rice Krispie Treat - we'll call him The Krispy King - organized those grains in such a way that, when organized in that exact manner, they produce something that is greater than the whole - not just a bundle of Rice Krispies, but a well-engineered, cohesive snack treat that he spent millions of dollars moulding into that exact shape.

Now, nobody starting from scratch could duplicate that exact Treat unless they, too, poured millions of dollars and thousands upon thousands of man-hours of dev-time into their own Treat. Furthermore, The KK begins to release exact replicas of this Krispy, with all of the byte-grains arranged in the exact same manner, to the public for, say, $5 each.

However, bad things start to happen when Jim-Bob in Dubuque, IN invents the Krispy Duplicator program. This program allows Jim-Bob, and anyone else who downloads the program, to duplicate any Rice Krispy, exactly how it was. Jim-Bob offers the "KD" online for free. Soon, Jim-Bob gets ahold of The KK's particular Krispy design and begins to duplicate it, offering up the duplicated Treats for free.

Potential consumers of Rice Krispy Treats now have two options: They can either buy from The KK, spending $5 in the process, or they can take one from Jim-Bob for free. Which do you think they'll do? The answer, of course, is that, whether or not they would have originally paid $5 for The KK's Treat, they'll just take one for free from Jim-Bob instead.

As you can see, though it may seem counter-intuitive if you haven't thought it through, there is a reason why copyright infringement - or piracy, if you prefer - is illegal. It protects innovators like The Krispy King from bankruptcy, while preventing people like Jim-Bob from enriching themselves at The KK's expense. In other words, to borrow a phrase, it enables a man to be entitled to the sweat of his own brow.

Do you understand now?

No.  Because food scientists do exist.  Who do spend LOTS of time and money coming up with the exact recipes used in Rice Krispy Treats and many other products.

When said recipes come out, the only person punished is the person who let the recipe out.  Not the people who are now making their own recipe.

In fact you are basically proving my point that the only reason it's illegal now is because it's too easy.  There is nothing inherently wrong with making your own game... or even your own copy of a game... like if you went by hand and hand programed your own exact copy of Too Human or something.

The problem is that it's too easy and going to hurt the guy who invented it.

The truth therin is that this is a imperefct law created to help the status quo.  When in reality what should happen is that people like the Krispy King should find a new way to get paid for their brilliance.

For example, by getting paid upfront before inventing the perfect rice krispy treat.

Or by packaging each free Rice Krispy treat full off adds for products that can't be duplicated eaisly like certain kinds of food, clothing and TVs.

Much like EA's exepirment with that new free Battlefield game.

The truth is... Piracy isn't ever going to be stopped unless DRMs and other things are taken to near orwellian in nature.... in which case.  The solution is worse then the problem.

As such... If the Mountain won't move to Mohhamad, Mohhamad must go to the mountian.

 



Pristine20 said:

Twesterm is really an anti-pirate.

I, however, don't oppose piracy in the 3rd world because it is a necessity to play any games there due to extremely lower purchasing power coupled with exhorbitant prices and economic suppression from the west.

 

Doesn't that make him a ninja?



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Analogy for #1 is great, provided the bread you're talking about has known issues where there's a giant hole in hte middle of the bread, or you were planning on getting wheat bread but there's no way to look at the bread well enough to tell that it's actually only white, or sometimes the bread is stale and feels like it was baked weeks ago, and you only have enough money for 1 loaf.
Yeah, i think I WILL start expecting to be able to try a slice or two before I'm willing to make a purchase.

#2 is cute as well. I can just imagine the curator walking into the museum, looking in the main display room and shouting "They've been STOLEN! The paintings are NOT gone! We must catch the thief who left these priceless works of art right where they were!"
No one is missing any products. All stock is still accounted for. the only difference is that the people who weren't willing to pay what was being asked for the game STILL aren't going to pay what is being asked for the game.
However, I'm not about to say that there aren't plenty of people who would have shelled out the price eventually if they didn't have the free alternative.

#3 is just silly.

#4 isn't quite phrased right. It's less "I killed the cat because it's dead" but "I cooked the cat for dinner because it had already been set on fire", perhaps a little unpleasant, but I'd rather see a cat eaten than see it burned for absolutely no reason at all. At least then it's feeding someone

#5 oh hell yes, homebrew has some awesome stuff, and being able to adjust my backlight intensity while I'm still playing is just as awesome as being able to switch between all my games without having to carry around all dozen of them. Seriously, i only have so many pockets, and it's nice just to have everything with me, cause I never know what I'll be in the mood to play, why do you think people went from CDs to MP3 players?
but tempted? that I can't argue with. My only point is that it doesn't negate that there are plenty of other reasons for the R4 card besides just piracy. It wasn't the roms that got me to buy the CycloDs that I own, it was the homebrew and applications that essentially let me use my DS as a PDA.

#6 i don't own a PSP

#7 LOL, this was awesome. Now it's going to be even worse for me to buy games from a store, because i know that my experience will never be that awesome. Pirating games may be the closest thing i will ever come to that type of death defying thrill of adventure! Avast, me hearties, yo ho!

#8 this one I will contend, at least on a personal basis. I don't recommend games unless I've played them and enjoy them. There are a lot of really decent games that i simply don't have the funds to purchase, but once i find a good game, I recommend the Shit out of it to anyone who I even notice having a DS, and i don't really bring any notice to the illegal rom side of things, so I actually am acting to boost the sales up of those games that deserve it.
I have however noticed the occasional thing where people go "hey, you don't need to buy the game, just get the rom for free from here" that i find a little detestable. I'm not about to go around saying that a game is really good and deserves great sales and then tell people NOT to buy it. That's just being an ass.

#9 is pretty much the same as 8. i don't have the money for it, so there's are two options for me and the game companies: either i don't get the game, and if anyone asks I won't even mention those games, or i find a cheaper alternative and then recommend it to anyone else who might possibly be able to buy the thing for the full price.

#10 isn't this what it always comes down to anyway?



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Garcian Smith said:
As per the Rice Krispy Treats analogy: That analogy is far, far too simplistic, but perhaps it can be salvaged. Say that the individual Rice Krispy grain represents a byte of information. Now, say that the creator of the first Rice Krispie Treat - we'll call him The Krispy King - organized those grains in such a way that, when organized in that exact manner, they produce something that is greater than the whole - not just a bundle of Rice Krispies, but a well-engineered, cohesive snack treat that he spent millions of dollars moulding into that exact shape.

Now, nobody starting from scratch could duplicate that exact Treat unless they, too, poured millions of dollars and thousands upon thousands of man-hours of dev-time into their own Treat. Furthermore, The KK begins to release exact replicas of this Krispy, with all of the byte-grains arranged in the exact same manner, to the public for, say, $5 each.

However, bad things start to happen when Jim-Bob in Dubuque, IN invents the Krispy Duplicator program. This program allows Jim-Bob, and anyone else who downloads the program, to duplicate any Rice Krispy, exactly how it was. Jim-Bob offers the "KD" online for free. Soon, Jim-Bob gets ahold of The KK's particular Krispy design and begins to duplicate it, offering up the duplicated Treats for free.

Potential consumers of Rice Krispy Treats now have two options: They can either buy from The KK, spending $5 in the process, or they can take one from Jim-Bob for free. Which do you think they'll do? The answer, of course, is that, whether or not they would have originally paid $5 for The KK's Treat, they'll just take one for free from Jim-Bob instead.

As you can see, though it may seem counter-intuitive if you haven't thought it through, there is a reason why copyright infringement - or piracy, if you prefer - is illegal. It protects innovators like The Krispy King from bankruptcy, while preventing people like Jim-Bob from enriching themselves at The KK's expense. In other words, to borrow a phrase, it enables a man to be entitled to the sweat of his own brow.

Do you understand now?

Let me add an analogy.
Personally I think piracy goes something like this.
And this is by no way a faith lesson, it just makes the point easier to convey.
Let's say a baker, after 3 years of trial and error finally finished the recipe for a very good and tasty loaf of bread.
So after 3 years of heavy research and working very hard the baker has a grand reopening of his shop and sells the bread.
About 20 people buy a loaf just in the morning.
One person who bought a loaf heard a story of a man that can make miracles come true named Jesus.
He came to the field where there was a crowd and where Jesus was preaching.
The man was impressed so he decided to donate the loaf.
After which Jesus puts the loaf in a basket and passes it around the crowd to eat.
The bread somehow never runs out and everyone got to eat the bakers bread.
Everyone at the field got to eat the bakers bread, without paying and without taking the bakers resources.
Did the baker lose sales? Unfortunately, yes.
The baker got the short end of the stick, lost sales and his hardwork didn't pay off as much.
Should the people eating the bread be thrown in jail?
Should Jesus be thrown in jail?
Should the person who bought and donated the bread be thrown in jail?
Should something be done to help the baker?




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iclim4 said:
Garcian Smith said:
As per the Rice Krispy Treats analogy: That analogy is far, far too simplistic, but perhaps it can be salvaged. Say that the individual Rice Krispy grain represents a byte of information. Now, say that the creator of the first Rice Krispie Treat - we'll call him The Krispy King - organized those grains in such a way that, when organized in that exact manner, they produce something that is greater than the whole - not just a bundle of Rice Krispies, but a well-engineered, cohesive snack treat that he spent millions of dollars moulding into that exact shape.

Now, nobody starting from scratch could duplicate that exact Treat unless they, too, poured millions of dollars and thousands upon thousands of man-hours of dev-time into their own Treat. Furthermore, The KK begins to release exact replicas of this Krispy, with all of the byte-grains arranged in the exact same manner, to the public for, say, $5 each.

However, bad things start to happen when Jim-Bob in Dubuque, IN invents the Krispy Duplicator program. This program allows Jim-Bob, and anyone else who downloads the program, to duplicate any Rice Krispy, exactly how it was. Jim-Bob offers the "KD" online for free. Soon, Jim-Bob gets ahold of The KK's particular Krispy design and begins to duplicate it, offering up the duplicated Treats for free.

Potential consumers of Rice Krispy Treats now have two options: They can either buy from The KK, spending $5 in the process, or they can take one from Jim-Bob for free. Which do you think they'll do? The answer, of course, is that, whether or not they would have originally paid $5 for The KK's Treat, they'll just take one for free from Jim-Bob instead.

As you can see, though it may seem counter-intuitive if you haven't thought it through, there is a reason why copyright infringement - or piracy, if you prefer - is illegal. It protects innovators like The Krispy King from bankruptcy, while preventing people like Jim-Bob from enriching themselves at The KK's expense. In other words, to borrow a phrase, it enables a man to be entitled to the sweat of his own brow.

Do you understand now?

Let me add an analogy.
Personally I think piracy goes something like this.
And this is by no way a faith lesson, it just makes the point easier to convey.
Let's say a baker, after 3 years of trial and error made the recipe for a very good and tasty loaf of bread.
The baker has a grand reopening of his shop and sells the bread.
About 20 people buy a loaf just in the morning.
One person who bought a loaf heard a story of a man that can make miracles come true named Jesus.
He came to the field where there was a crowd and where Jesus was preaching.
The man was impressed so he decided to donate the loaf.
After which Jesus puts the loaf in a basket and passes it around the crowd to eat.
The bread somehow never runs out and everyone got to eat the bakers bread.
Everyone at the field got to eat the bakers bread, without paying and without taking the bakers resources.
Did the baker lose sales? Unfortunately, yes.
The baker got the short end of the stick, lost sales and his hardwork didn't pay off as much.
Should the people eating the bread be thrown in jail?
Should Jesus be thrown in jail?
Should the person who bought and donated the bread be thrown in jail?
Should something be done to help the baker?

I would say...

No, No, No and Yes.

The Yes being that the baker should be paid upfront... to make new delicious bread by patrons who know he can make good bread and would like new tasty types of bread.

Be it because they are just rich bread lovers... much how plays used to be written in the time of shakespeare.

Or because they know lots of people will eat that bread... and said piece of bread will have uh... fortune cookie paper pieces inside each slice.

Etc. 

Of course the Baker would perfer not to do that since he's used to the old ay and isn't sure what the new way will hold...

however nobody should be getting crucified because the buisness terrain has changed.

I mean say piracy could destroy the industry.  What will happen if the industry is destroyed?  Will it never be replaced?  Or will the Industry really just take on another form.   Perhaps a new, better, evolved form.



Kasz216 said:

I would say...

No, No, No and Yes.

The Yes being that the baker should be paid upfront... to make new delicious bread by patrons who know he can make good bread and would like new tasty types of bread.

Be it because they are just rich bread lovers... much how plays used to be written in the time of shakespeare.

Or because they know lots of people will eat that bread... and said piece of bread will have uh... fortune cookie paper pieces inside each slice.

Etc. 

Of course the Baker would perfer not to do that since he's used to the old ay and isn't sure what the new way will hold...

however nobody should be getting crucified because the buisness terrain has changed.

I mean say piracy could destroy the industry.  What will happen if the industry is destroyed?  Will it never be replaced?  Or will the Industry really just take on another form.   Perhaps a new, better, evolved form.

So you think MS's form of moneyhatting good developers to make games for people to buy is the proper path?
The devs get paid upfront to make a game afterall.
That, and in-game advertisements?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                         iclim4 - "The Friends Thread changed my life!" (Pervert Alert!)                                            Tags? 

The funny thing is, even the most zealous game pirating critics usually have other pirated stuff like music, movies or TV shows on their PC's.
And the theft analogies are getting tiired; if I steal a car then the car is gone, the same cannot be said if I copy the car and drive away in my own (of course, this is not possible, which kinda makes the whole analogy useless, which is my point in the first place).

Being against piracy is one thing, pretending (as a PC geek at least) that you've never had or owned any pirated material on your PC is just lame.
twes, BenKenobi and the other high and mighty; are you telling me that there is not a shred of anything remotely illegal or pirated in your home or on your PC? One song, a downloaded video from YouTube that is actually copyrighted material that someone posted or a very old movie digitalized?
If you say yes then I believe you are lying and if you are then you are all hypocrites.

PS: I don't condone piracy, but I understand it, especially being from a country where everything is so expensive you have to sell your ass to even eat.

PSPS: BenKenobi; an average movie costs more to produce than an average game so the cost aspect does not compute. It is true, however, that movies are a more widespread media and has several phases in which to generate revenue and encompasses a broader market and audience (which was probably what you meant, it just seemed strangely formulated, is all).



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The choice of words gives it a much greater impact when reading it.



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