@chenguo: Great, amazing games can be great and amazing without a passive story.
Game with great gameplay and shitty story shouldn't deserve as high review score as a game with similar gameplay and no story.

@Staude: Why story doesn't conflict with a game? It's just a feature that takes the game away from its core.

Well, by that argument, a game wiht shitty music is worse than a game with no sound.

Look, I understand there are games that dont need story - Tetris, Minesweeper, etc. But in regards to action/adventure games that Nintendo seems to specialize in, where a certain quest is involved, I'd like more than a nominal explanation of why I'm going on this quest.

And I also disagree that a story takes games away from their cores... A good story should be a part of the game's core, no matter the genre. Well, once again, except like Tetris.

Ok, firstly, this phrase 'double standard' doesn't mean what you think it does.

Having a double standard is when you expect others to meet one set of standards and you to meet another. Can you quote a Ninty exec criticising a game for lack of story?

Moving along from semantics, I like the plot of the Zelda games, I love the plot to Metroid games. Just because they have text instead of some douche reading out exactly what they would have had as text anyway, does not mean the plot is bad.

I'm not saying the double standard is from Nintendo. I'm saying it's from reviewers, maybe I wasn't 100% clear, but everyone else seems to have got it.

And I dropped the Zelda point, I realized they had more story than I acknowledged. As for Metroid, well, the story's there, but most people who played it wouldn't really know. I was a scan whore, that's the only way I ever found out. Presentation does matter; it doesn't have to be "some douche reading out exactly" what it is, but making it more accessible so more people can enjoy it certainly doesn't hurt.

I wouldn't agree that Nintendo does not focus on the story. Mario's story is simple but yet it's that story that pushes some people (like me) to get all the stars to save Peach, Mario is a game that can be enjoyed by everyone a 5 year old, a 25 year old and a 60 year old. The story does not need to be complicated, if that wasn't the truth Mario would not be a phenomena as he is.

Zelda for Action Adventure story seems just fine for me, it's not an RPG , and TP has interestic plot , few quick changes. But it still has better story than most Shooters and other games , Halo for example.

Nintendo games can be enjoyed by everyone, and they just get a perfect balance between interesting story and gameplay.

Ahh, I may just have read the first post then replied. I also was a scan whore for the metroid games.

There are many types of films that have minimal plot to keep it moving along.

Horror's goal is to shock, scare, startle, and occasionally disgust.
Porn's goal is to make you orgasm.
Comedy's goal is to make you laugh.
Melodrama's goal is to make you cry.

These genres are known for having really bad stories, and sometimes they have no stories at all, and sometimes they try to have a really good story, but nobody cares because they're too busy getting scared, having orgasms, laughing, and crying.





Same thing with games. If you're bothered by the bad story or the lack of a story, there could be something wrong with the gameplay. You should be busy having fun.

Puzzle games don't need stories. (Does anybody even watch the cutscenes in Bomberman games anymore?)

Shooters don't need stories (CounterStrike, Team Fortress, any deathmatch, etc. are infinitely more fun than playing through a single player story mode of any shooter). When people compare shooters, they compare every detail regarding the gameplay far more often than they have arguments about which game had a better retarded story about bald space marines fighting off alternate history alien Nazis or whatever.

Sports games, racing games, party games, board games, card games, and simulators don't need stories.

Shmups, tournament fighters, beat 'em ups, and platformers don't need stories.

The only genre that absolutely relies on a story is RPGs, because they need to give you a reason to justify the countless hours of mindless leveling up you're going to do. If they can't motivate you with a good story, you won't finish the game.



This used to be enough of a story to get you into a kickass game:



OR THIS:





These would get me pumped up and ready to beat some bad guy ass.


Once games had cutscenes, everybody started to expect them, and video games became "cinematic," and now you take turns playing the game and watching the movies. Why don't we just take all these cinematic games, and clump them together into one genre, and call them "cinematic games," and say that "story is very important to RPGs and other cinematic games," and leave the rest of the industry out of it?


Now in 2008, Yakuza 2 for the PS2 makes you wait 35 minutes before you can cut anybody up! Famitsu gave it a 38/40! It hits North America September 9th and Europe September 28th!

Erh... this is true...

if you're able to bear with an horrible music during hours, good for you. But 99% of the population won't have your patience, and will simply turn off the speakers.

The same can be said about stories.

@chenguo: That was excactly the point. Game without music is better than a game with shit music.

Ok, you're really starting to running out of arguments when after you make one, start to make exceptions in the same centence. Why wouldn't an epic Lord of the Rings or War and Peace style -story be needed in Tetris? It would be a perfect set to a story about bald space marines defending a circular space station from alien attackers, whose aim is to conquer the universe. It should be included to the games core.

Look, in a story focused way of thinking, the purpose of the story have always been to offer a motive for the (main character) quest. The story in games, is the quest itself. Before cinematic games, you were supposed to play the story, where the story was the sandbox and your purpose was to decide how you play the story, all the passive story elements just working as a link to the next gameplay, when in todays cinematic games, gameplay work as a link to the next cinematics. They could even be called as non-games.

Besides, now that the topic was about Nintendo getting a free pass with having no story, that's where you are wrong, all of their games does have a story. Fire Emblem and Zelda being in the genres that require the most story, they are the ones with the most heavy story. When Wii Sports and Wii Fit not needing a story at all, they don't have it. And SMG for example has a bit too much of a story.

I had a longer post, but Rubang said pretty much everything. That Double Dragon intro is especially epic - bad guy punches girl, takes her away, then "MISSION 1," lol...

Anyway, I thought of a few games that were well received and had either simple or very little story, here are a few:

Shadow of the Colossus - this game seems virtually loved by everyone on this board (as well as reviewers). Now, think about the "story" it gives us - some unknown guy wants to save some unknown girl, and has to down 16 colossi in order to achieve it. Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it... Sounds pretty lame or simple when worded like that, no? The important part is how all of this is presented - the gameplay, such as exploring through the huge world, is the narrative, or story. Maybe this is a bad example, because for some reason I'm thinking this is a game someone like DTG may actually like, but I can't pinpoint the reason.

Zack & Wiki - This game's story was pretty damn simple. Just read the title - Quest for Barbaros' Treasure. That's all it is, and that's all it needs to be. It's also an adventure game, which fits into your criteria. I was planning on throwing out more examples, but since people (see quote below) are limiting the genre of games that "require" story for whatever reason, it's tough.

Why do these games need stories (the complex type, I assume we're talking about)? Just because R&C, a platformer, has a story, that means Mario must have one now? If a fighting game somehow had a great story, it shouldn't mean anything for future fighters. Many people here are hyped for Mega Man 9, and we all know how that "story" will play out. SotC practically had no story if you take out the ending. Remember, games' main purpose is to keep us entertained. A complex story is not required to do this.

I realize you (chenguo) seem to be talking about only reviewers, and that they take points off for having a lacking story if they aren't Nintendo. You then used gamespot as evidence, so take a good look at this: http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supermario128/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;read-review
This is one of their complaints for Super Mario Galaxy: "Minimal amount of story doesn't tie everything together especially well."

There is no double standard.