twesterm said: Onyxmeth said: twesterm said: I just picked a random game people love to shit on. If that one doesn't work, go buy The Sims 2. If you already like that, go Carnival Games. If not that, go buy Resistance. I can keep naming games and I could eventually find one you just don't like. Easier way would be to just say that not all games, no matter how good they are, appeal to everybody. It was Jonathon Blow's own choice to make the game as difficult and different as it is and that is one of the risks of making a game like that. He knows his target audience. This can be said about any game. No game is liked by 100% of all people. Why did you choose this game and this game only out of the thousands released to make a thread entirely about the audience this doesn't cater to as a warning? Why not Madden 09? Or Sims 2? Or Carnival Games? Or Resistance? Each has warranted it's own twesterm warning thread of who should not buy it, right?   Because I think Braid is different. I can read a faq for something like Uncharted, Gears of War, or Super Mario Galaxy and it doesn't ruin the game. So those people that buy those games purely on hype are still fine because if they get stuck or whatever it's no catastrophic thing to read a faq. With something like Braid it's a very hard game and everyone is telling everyone else to buy it. Those people who don't like puzzle games for whatever reason are going to get stuck and refer to a faq and completely ruin the game. What's the point of a puzzle game when you don't actually do the puzzles. Even if someone wants to branch out and try new genres Braid isn't something you want to start with in the puzzle genre. You'll get frustrated and never play the genre again. If they started with something like Zack & Wiki that has a good learning curve or Portal which is something you can brute force your way through that also has familiar elements that would be better. Braid would just frustrate those people. I also make this thread because I know people that bought this game purely on hype and they hate puzzle games. They come back telling everyone how terrible the game was because it's boring, no action, too hard, ect.

"Because I think Braid is different. I can read a faq for something like Uncharted, Gears of War, or Super Mario Galaxy and it doesn't ruin the game. So those people that buy those games purely on hype are still fine because if they get stuck or whatever it's no catastrophic thing to read a faq."
Just because 'you' think that reading a FAQ to help with a puzzle game is more catastrophic to the gameplay experience than say using one for help on a shooter or a platformer doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. I personally would feel just as bad about using a FAQ for help through a shooter or a platformer than I would for a puzzle game. Don't speak for other people.
"With something like Braid it's a very hard game and everyone is telling everyone else to buy it. Those people who don't like puzzle games for whatever reason are going to get stuck and refer to a faq and completely ruin the game. What's the point of a puzzle game when you don't actually do the puzzles."
If someone bought a puzzle game and didn't even bother to find out its genre or what it's about deserves to lose the money spent on the game.
"Even if someone wants to branch out and try new genres Braid isn't something you want to start with in the puzzle genre. You'll get frustrated and never play the genre again. If they started with something like Zack & Wiki that has a good learning curve or Portal which is something you can brute force your way through that also has familiar elements that would be better. Braid would just frustrate those people."
Here you go talking for other people again. Braid could be just what a newcomer to the puzzle genre is looking for, just as it could be what they're not looking for. You are making assumptions about peoples tastes in puzzle games that you have never spoken to. Just because you found Braid difficult does not mean that a newcomer to this particular genre will find it as difficult. They might just be a better puzzle solver than you are, and find the game challenging but not overly so, rewarding, and a whole lot of fun. Also, have you ever considered that a newcomer to the puzzle genre might actually be looking for a very challenging experience? Also, have you considered even if someone started with Zack & Wiki or Portal before playing Braid, that wouldn't make much of a difference considering they're all very different games from another. Do you think that all puzzles are the same, where when you get good at easy puzzles, you naturally get better at 'totally different' more difficult puzzles? I don't understand any of your logic.
"I also make this thread because I know people that bought this game purely on hype and they hate puzzle games. They come back telling everyone how terrible the game was because it's boring, no action, too hard, ect."
I will state this again... If someone bought a puzzle game and didn't even bother to find out its genre or what it's about deserves to lose the money spent on the game. Buying a game purely on hype without finding out anything about it is reckless behavior.

Thanks.  I am a brute force kinda guy so I will steer clear.

twesterm said: Before I invite the wrath of the internetz, let me say this-- I thought Braid was brilliant.  I just finished it tonight and I absolutely loved it. So why wouldn't I recommend Braid to everyone and don't think everyone should buy it? Braid isn't an easy game.  It's hard.  Unless you really like puzzle games and playing games where you can't just brute force your way around most puzzles you won't like the game.  You're going to get stuck on a puzzle (or likely most puzzles actually) and have to resort to a faq.  The moment you start using that faq you've completely ruined the game for yourself. And that's why I don't think everyone who has a 360 should run out and buy Braid.  If you love puzzle games, stop reading this and buy/play Braid now if you already haven't, otherwise, avoid it like the plague.

I agree and tried to make a similar "warning: it's hard" point in an earlier Braid thread.  Not only are there some rather difficult puzzle/platform moments later in the game that can take hours to solve, there are still the stars remaining and those can be even worse.  Just yesterday I spent almost an hour trying to figure out how to get one particularly frustrating star, and then two hours trying to execute the whole thing.  Even after figuring out what to do, I still couldn't do it properly and eventually moved on to playing Madden 09.

I wouldn't go as far as to tell someone "don't buy Braid" because it's an amazing game.  But everyone should know what they're getting themselves into.

oh come on it isn't that hard.

Thx I am going to save my money then. I bought way to many games lately I am going to save the money for Castle Crashers it is more my kind of game.

 

Edit: Tell me when Kula World 2 or Puzzle Quest are announced that are two puzzle games I totaly want;

I think the people saying that Braid isn't that hard are either really hard core or lying about playing/beating it.

I haven't played it. But everyone I know, who I trust (real world people), who has played it, says it's hard. Every review says it's hard.

EaglesEye379/Shern Foo is ranked 175* of 21000* braid players (Hardcore)
ToastyJaguar is ranked 16000* with only 4 of the 12 available achievements (Hasn't done very much yet)

(*on mygamercard.net)

Me like challenge...

@steven787

That was a very misguided post. Go and look properly. Being Rank 175 (actually its 177) means jack, and it defo doesnt mean I am the 175th best player in the world.

First of all its an Achievement ranking, so everyone with 200G gets Rank 1. Then everyone who got 1 less Achievement at 185 G is Rank 177. Getting 185 G means you have completed the game.

In fact, out of that 27k, it looks like a few thousand have already completed the game, and it only has been out for a week!

Anyway I didnt say its easy. Its hard but its far less hard and frustrating than games like Z&W, Portal, and Lost Vikings.

And seriously, Im sorry for people who will not get to see time manipulation and parallel universe the way it should be done in a game. This makes games like Timeshift, Max Payne, FEAR (all with slowmo time) look like kiddie games. Seriously.

IMO, using a faq ruins just about any game.

I think Braid would be recommendable to pretty much any gamer if it wasn't for it's steep price tag ($15). That's a lot for such a short game, and one that has very little replay value once you do complete it.

But twesterm is right... I'm up to World 5 so far and it gets considerably tougher after the first couple of worlds, and it's definitely not for everyone, its a niche title.