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Forums - Sales - Sega: Sony likely needs substantial PS3 price cut

naznatips on 02 July 2007
TheBigFatJ said:

So whats your point ?

I know those games doesnt sell 4 million each (maybe FF or DQ ) .But those games will sell the console to the hardcore gamer and many casuals (Eye of Judgement ,PES ,Hot Shots ,Singstar that we didnt mention it ) and build an active fanbase that will buy many games each month unlike the casual crowd of the Wii .

And I repeat to you what it has been said before about price cuts ,if you cut the price you receive a 100-200 hit ,if you dont you dont sell millions of them and take a 500-600 hit by each produced .Thats pretty clear ,the thing is cut the price to push as many consoles as possible in households and then recover some money from royalties by both BR movies and games (third party ) and your own game sales.


You're not paying attention if you think the PS3 has anywhere near the attach rate of the Wii. The Wii is actually selling a lot of games, and many 3rd party games are doing extremely well on the system as well. Why do you think third parties are calceling games for the PS3 and putting them on the Wii (Katamari)?

The point is this: none of that software is going to drastically change the outlook for the PS3. So far, the PS3 has consistently sold worse as more software has come out for it, so there's little reason to suspect all of those games will drastically increase sales.

Further, as people have pointed out: price cuts would have to be significant (not $100) to increase sales. Sony can't do that -- not yet. They've tested the waters at lower pricing and know it won't increase sales much at certain price points. Sony has a limited range of motion, at the moment, and ultimately they're going to have to weather bad sales for probably a year yet before they can even consider really turning things around (and at that point it will still be an uphill battle).


Exactly, with it's low attach rate (something like 1.7 games per system) it's obvious many of the Japanese are simply using it as a Blu-Ray player. If these games couldn't sell in the PS2 with it's high attach rate what are the chances they are going to sell on the PS3 (much less sell the PS3 itself) with a much lower attach rate? The Japanese market is not looking good for Sony. That's just the way it is. The PS3 has plenty of amazing games comming, but the Japanese seem to have developed a total apathy for the system. Obviously the PS3 is creating more damage than Sony's other means of profit can fix (losses outweighed profit last quarter, due to the PS3). Think about how much more they are going to cost their divisions if they cut the price even MORE. They are currently losing an average worldwide of $200+ per system... not to mention they overproduced (they probably have made somewhere around 7 million PS3s worldwide, while only selling 3.5 million) and it's REALLY hard to give a price cut when you overproduce at such high quantities.



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Dolla Dolla on 02 July 2007

Europe is Sony's last hope, for the moment.

This is how the past months have been going:
PS3 JP+NA
The PS3 launched in Japan in November. It's been out for about 8 months and STILL HASN'T HIT 1 MILLION SYSTEMS SOLD. It hit one million in Europe in less than 4 months due to a high supplied launch.

Sony HAS to outsell the 360 this holiday season worldwide if it EVER wants to even THINK of coming in 2nd place this generation.



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deadhorse on 02 July 2007
Diomedes1976 said:
naznatips said:
Diomedes1976 said:
 

We are supposed to take you serious ?

I see ,Resident Evil 5 ,Devil May Cry 5 ,Silent Hill 5 ,Gran turismo 5 ,Eye of Judgement ,Heavenly Sword ,Rise to Lair ,White Knight Story ,Hot Shots Golf 5 ,Final Fantasy XIII ,Final Fantasy XIII Versus ,The Last Remnant ,Bladestorm ,Metal Gear Solid 4 ,Pro Evolution Soccer etc arent out but Sony is out of ammunition because the remake of Ninja gaiden ,Folksouls (released at 20K units first week ) and Virtua Fighter 5 didnt push the system .Oh yes .

And we have to take that the console is cheaper there since launch as proof that they have had a price cut ....even having in count the Wii is 170 dollars there and the X360 250 plus a game .

If its necessary Sony will reduce the price of the system and redesing it but it wont fail .If you wish it so fervently you are for a big deception some time from now .


Good for you. Here is what most people who pay attention see:

Resident Evil 5: RE4 didn't break 1 million sold in Japan on Wii, PS2, and Gamecube COMBINED. Obviously RE5 will though right? The PS3 just magically changes everything.

Devil May Cry 5: DMC3 sold .35 million in Japan. Another system seller you got right there.

Silent Hill 5: last one didn't even break 1 million worldwoide. (are you starting to see a pattern yet?)

Gran Turismo 5: 1.10 Million on GT4, it's gotta chance to sell a couple hundred thousand systems in Japan at most.

Eye of Judgement: It's a card game. Yes, the Japanese like these but what do you expect out of it?

Heavenly Sword: They won't buy God of War, why would they buy God of War as a woman?

Lair: Japanese don't play flying games. Case in point: Rogue Squadron sold 30K copies in Japan.

White Knight Story: I'm sure it will sell as well as Folksoul

Hot Shots Golf 5: A casual golf game on a hardcore system, last one sold 1.34 million. Good luck with that.

Final Fantasy XIII and vs: Yeah, these will likely boost sales some. As I said it's dead weight till FFXIII.

The Last Remnant: See; White Knight Story and Folksoul.

Bladestorm: Becase the Japanese are all over war games. (Man i hope you understand sarcasm)

Metal Gear Solid 4: 3 sold .86 million in Japan. Man I'm enjoying this.

Pro Evolution Soccer: Last sold .92 million. This game sits around with Everybod'ys Golf as a casual sports game on a hardcore system. Games like Everybody's Golf and this have been replaced by Wii games like Wii Sports.

Most of these will probably be good games, but that doesn't mean they sell systems. As far as a price cut goes, Sony cannot afford that. They suffered HUGE losses to get it out at a reasonable price in Japan and to take a cut. What on earth makes you think that they have the money to cut it again in Japan? They'll be lucky to have the money to cut it in America and Europe. Japan has to be their biggest disappointment, with all the effort and money they spent to try and get the japanese to buy their system.


 

So whats your point ?

 

I know those games doesnt sell 4 million each (maybe FF or DQ ) .But those games will sell the console to the hardcore gamer and many casuals (Eye of Judgement ,PES ,Hot Shots ,Singstar that we didnt mention it ) and build an active fanbase that will buy many games each month unlike the casual crowd of the Wii .

And I repeat to you what it has been said before about price cuts ,if you cut the price you receive a 100-200 hit ,if you dont you dont sell millions of them and take a 500-600 hit by each produced .Thats pretty clear ,the thing is cut the price to push as many consoles as possible in households and then recover some money from royalties by both BR movies and games (third party ) and your own game sales.

 
 

That post just went over your head entirely didn't it?  Very few of those games are going to sell consoles.  If the prequels didn't sell that well on a massively popular system why would you expect them to sell so well that they cause any significant increase in sales of an extremely expensive system that the public currently hates?

Also, you repeat the myth that the Wii only appeals to casual audiences.  Just keep telling yourself that.  If that's the case, then why do Wii fans on these boards outnumber PS3 fans at least 2 to 1?  Do you think that every Wii owner posting on this message board is a casual gamer?  No, the Wii has more casual gamers, but it has also sold so much more than the PS3 that it has way more hardcore gamers who own the system than own a PS3.  Twilight Princess has sold around 3.30 million, Resistance has sold 1.3 million.  Don't try to claim Twilight Princess is a casual game, it's way deeper, more complex, and requires a walkthrough more than Resistance.



Ackmed Tepish on 02 July 2007

If Price cut didn't help Sony in Japan, it won't help anywhere else.



End of 2007 Predictions:

Wii =18m

360=14m

PS3=7m

 

DS=64m

PSP=30m

Avalach21 on 02 July 2007

Diomedes1976 said:
naznatips said:
Diomedes1976 said:
 

We are supposed to take you serious ?

I see ,Resident Evil 5 ,Devil May Cry 5 ,Silent Hill 5 ,Gran turismo 5 ,Eye of Judgement ,Heavenly Sword ,Rise to Lair ,White Knight Story ,Hot Shots Golf 5 ,Final Fantasy XIII ,Final Fantasy XIII Versus ,The Last Remnant ,Bladestorm ,Metal Gear Solid 4 ,Pro Evolution Soccer etc arent out but Sony is out of ammunition because the remake of Ninja gaiden ,Folksouls (released at 20K units first week ) and Virtua Fighter 5 didnt push the system .Oh yes .

And we have to take that the console is cheaper there since launch as proof that they have had a price cut ....even having in count the Wii is 170 dollars there and the X360 250 plus a game .

If its necessary Sony will reduce the price of the system and redesing it but it wont fail .If you wish it so fervently you are for a big deception some time from now .


Good for you. Here is what most people who pay attention see:

Resident Evil 5: RE4 didn't break 1 million sold in Japan on Wii, PS2, and Gamecube COMBINED. Obviously RE5 will though right? The PS3 just magically changes everything.

Devil May Cry 5: DMC3 sold .35 million in Japan. Another system seller you got right there.

Silent Hill 5: last one didn't even break 1 million worldwoide. (are you starting to see a pattern yet?)

Gran Turismo 5: 1.10 Million on GT4, it's gotta chance to sell a couple hundred thousand systems in Japan at most.

Eye of Judgement: It's a card game. Yes, the Japanese like these but what do you expect out of it?

Heavenly Sword: They won't buy God of War, why would they buy God of War as a woman?

Lair: Japanese don't play flying games. Case in point: Rogue Squadron sold 30K copies in Japan.

White Knight Story: I'm sure it will sell as well as Folksoul

Hot Shots Golf 5: A casual golf game on a hardcore system, last one sold 1.34 million. Good luck with that.

Final Fantasy XIII and vs: Yeah, these will likely boost sales some. As I said it's dead weight till FFXIII.

The Last Remnant: See; White Knight Story and Folksoul.

Bladestorm: Becase the Japanese are all over war games. (Man i hope you understand sarcasm)

Metal Gear Solid 4: 3 sold .86 million in Japan. Man I'm enjoying this.

Pro Evolution Soccer: Last sold .92 million. This game sits around with Everybod'ys Golf as a casual sports game on a hardcore system. Games like Everybody's Golf and this have been replaced by Wii games like Wii Sports.

Most of these will probably be good games, but that doesn't mean they sell systems. As far as a price cut goes, Sony cannot afford that. They suffered HUGE losses to get it out at a reasonable price in Japan and to take a cut. What on earth makes you think that they have the money to cut it again in Japan? They'll be lucky to have the money to cut it in America and Europe. Japan has to be their biggest disappointment, with all the effort and money they spent to try and get the japanese to buy their system.


 

So whats your point ?

 

I know those games doesnt sell 4 million each (maybe FF or DQ ) .But those games will sell the console to the hardcore gamer and many casuals (Eye of Judgement ,PES ,Hot Shots ,Singstar that we didnt mention it ) and build an active fanbase that will buy many games each month unlike the casual crowd of the Wii .

And I repeat to you what it has been said before about price cuts ,if you cut the price you receive a 100-200 hit ,if you dont you dont sell millions of them and take a 500-600 hit by each produced .Thats pretty clear ,the thing is cut the price to push as many consoles as possible in households and then recover some money from royalties by both BR movies and games (third party ) and your own game sales.

 

 

 "...and build an active fanbase that will buy many games each month unlike the casual crowd of the Wii ."

 The attach rates were already said somewhere in this thread.  Something like 1.7 for PS3?  I don't know what the exact Wii attach rate is, but it's much higher than that (anyone help me out here?).  Do you have any logic or reason backing your claims?  You can call the Wii's crowd whatever you want, "casual, lame, noobs,kids, homos," but the fact is, they are buying "many games each month" while the "hardcore,1337,tru-gamer" PS3 owners are buying no where near as many games per month. 

The facts are whats important, not the labels you apply to the userbase, and the facts show that many more software titles are being bought per Wii than per PS3.  The attach ratio figures speak louder than your insults.



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vizunary on 02 July 2007
davygee said:
Bodhesatva said:

Or maybe the Japanese simply don't care very much about the console. Honestly, the PS3 is out of spare lives in Japan: it's lowered its price (Which was already lower than the US price), Japan has a solid HDTV adoption rate (Japan has the highest in the world), it's had major Japan-centric title released (Gundam Musou and now Folk Soul), and it faces much weaker competition from the 360 in Japan than it does in the US/Europe (where both the 360 AND the Wii are beating it), and yet the system just can't gain any traction.

At some point you have to stop looking for excuses and simply say that the system isn't doing well in Japan. The launch gate has closed, all of the maneuvering has been tried, but the PS3 just keeps falling farther and farther behind.


You can't just disregard the price of the system as being it's problem....of course it's a huge problem of the PS3.

The PS3 although cheap in Japan at around $400 is still double the cost of the Wii which is around $200.

The price isn't an excuse...it's primarily the reason IMHO.  And this is why Nintendo are running away with all the gold.  The PS3 isn't just expensive...it's ridiculously expensive in all 3 markets.  Although if a PS3 was priced around $400 in the UK...they WOULD be sold out, seeing as that makes in come in at not much over £200...it is currently double this in the UK. 


I've got to say that Sony is a dumbshit on this one... They've should've dropped the price to $406 in the U S A (or the enitire western market for that matter) and not Japan. I think they would've seen some real nice sales figures here in the 2nd quarter, they did have some decent games out with a fairly wide range of appeal. I would've been pissed that only two months before mine cost $600, but I would get over that pretty quick, I knew what I was paying for(being an early adopter with no games to play =)

Also, wasn't there 300k pre orders of Hot Shots Golf 5 in Japan??? That's not bad for preorders.



Fonzerelli on 02 July 2007

I suspect a 100$ pricecut on all versions after E3 and a further 100$ pricecut by winter 2007. They need to shift that inventory and pray to sell more software, blue ray movies.



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naznatips on 02 July 2007
Avalach21 said:

 

 

"...and build an active fanbase that will buy many games each month unlike the casual crowd of the Wii ."

The attach rates were already said somewhere in this thread. Something like 1.7 for PS3? I don't know what the exact Wii attach rate is, but it's much higher than that (anyone help me out here?). Do you have any logic or reason backing your claims? You can call the Wii's crowd whatever you want, "casual, lame, noobs,kids, homos," but the fact is, they are buying "many games each month" while the "hardcore,1337,tru-gamer" PS3 owners are buying no where near as many games per month.

The facts are whats important, not the labels you apply to the userbase, and the facts show that many more software titles are being bought per Wii than per PS3. The attach ratio figures speak louder than your insults.


I believe the Wii's attach rate was around 3.3 last time I checked.  Not as good as the 360 (sitting at 3.6 I believe) but for a new system without many good games out yet doing very well.

I completely agree with you Vizunary.  Remember pre-orders don't really help find sales numbers.  Pokemon only had 500K but is soaring towards 3 million +.  On the other hand God of War 2 got 1 million supposedly and only sold a small amount above that.   So for HSG we really just need ot wait and see.



ookaze on 02 July 2007

naznatips, the only thing I don't agree with, is one item in the list of system sellers.
I never understood why people thought that FolkSoul would sell in Japan, and I don't understand why people call it a RPG. If it is a RPG, it's not a JRPG at all. This game had no appeal from the start, except to graphic whores (USA hardcore gamers) perhaps, but graphics don't make a good JRPG.
As a lover of JRPG, I just thought this game had no interest at all. This game is more an adventure game, like Zelda. But some people call Zelda a A-RPG, so that would explain it.
Where I disagree, is that I think White Knight Story will be a system seller, at least from the look of it for now.
Heavenly Sword could have been one, but it's too much of a western type game, and it shows badly.
It should be a system seller in the USA, but not in Japan I think.
And the FFXIII delay until at best April 2008 is a killer blow to the PS3 IMHO. That makes the PS3 lose a holiday system seller, which is very very bad.



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kars on 02 July 2007
Fonzerelli said:
I suspect a 100$ pricecut on all versions after E3 and a further 100$ pricecut by winter 2007. They need to shift that inventory and pray to sell more software, blue ray movies.

 Well at this rate they would certainly shift CEOs. I think everything over 150$ and the stock market would scream bloody murder. Such rates would probably guarantee, that the PS-3 would not recover its development cost in its lifetime (in other words, we try to survive till the PS-4 brings better times)! And the same price cut on the Xbox 360 (no problem after such a move from Sony)would probably mean that games suddenly sell the hardware. That's the problem: If they try to fight the Xbox 360 with the price they WILL loose.