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Forums - General Discussion - Russia Invades Georgia

Jackson50 said:
It is becoming clear that Russia intends to overthrow the Saakashvili presidency. Russia is making veiled threats to other nations that are seeking further integration with the West. I am not sure what President Saakashvili was thinking when he began shelling South Ossetia last week. It was a gross miscalculation, and a lot of the major European powers are blaming Georgia for being irresponsible. Taking that into consideration, I doubt we will see any actions taken by the West. Threatening to expel Russia from the G8 could be a response, but I doubt we will see that.

I don't believe the mainstream media's simplistic statements about how this started. The judge is still out on that.

Russian troops (and maybe Georgian ones) have been amassing near the region for months, so I think we'll have to look a few months back to see who's really to blame.

This region has been building pressure for a long time, and the recent talks about Georgia joining NATO certainly didn't do anything to slow it down.

 



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NJ5 said:
Jackson50 said:
It is becoming clear that Russia intends to overthrow the Saakashvili presidency. Russia is making veiled threats to other nations that are seeking further integration with the West. I am not sure what President Saakashvili was thinking when he began shelling South Ossetia last week. It was a gross miscalculation, and a lot of the major European powers are blaming Georgia for being irresponsible. Taking that into consideration, I doubt we will see any actions taken by the West. Threatening to expel Russia from the G8 could be a response, but I doubt we will see that.

I don't believe the mainstream media's simplistic statements about how this started. The judge is still out on that.

Russian troops (and maybe Georgian ones) have been amassing near the region for months, so I think we'll have to look a few months back to see who's really to blame.

This region has been building pressure for a long time, and the recent talks about Georgia joining NATO certainly didn't do anything to slow it down.

 

Obviously the reasons as for why this started are more abstruse, but the Georgian shelling in South Ossetia last week was the catalyst for Russia's miltary action. Yes, Russia was goading Georgia into taking military action, but Georgia should have known that using its military to settle this dispute by force would give Russia a reason to act. Of course, the Russians have misplayed their hand by crossing into Georgian territory. If they truly believed this was a justified response like NATO's intervention into Kosovo was, they would have agreed to the cease-fire. It is clear that Russia intends on replacing President Saakashvili and the governing UNM party.

 



Jackson50 said:
NJ5 said:
Jackson50 said:
It is becoming clear that Russia intends to overthrow the Saakashvili presidency. Russia is making veiled threats to other nations that are seeking further integration with the West. I am not sure what President Saakashvili was thinking when he began shelling South Ossetia last week. It was a gross miscalculation, and a lot of the major European powers are blaming Georgia for being irresponsible. Taking that into consideration, I doubt we will see any actions taken by the West. Threatening to expel Russia from the G8 could be a response, but I doubt we will see that.

I don't believe the mainstream media's simplistic statements about how this started. The judge is still out on that.

Russian troops (and maybe Georgian ones) have been amassing near the region for months, so I think we'll have to look a few months back to see who's really to blame.

This region has been building pressure for a long time, and the recent talks about Georgia joining NATO certainly didn't do anything to slow it down.

 

Obviously the reasons as for why this started are more abstruse, but the Georgian shelling in South Ossetia last week was the catalyst for Russia's miltary action. Yes, Russia was goading Georgia into taking military action, but Georgia should have known that using its military to settle this dispute by force would give Russia a reason to act. Of course, the Russians have misplayed their hand by crossing into Georgian territory. If they truly believed this was a justified response like NATO's intervention into Kosovo was, they would have agreed to the cease-fire. It is clear that Russia intends on replacing President Saakashvili and the governing UNM party.

 

Was it the georgian shelling? Or was in the seperists who attacked South Ossetia first.

You are basically saying georgia had no right to protect itself... from itself.

The real problem is that Russia see's South Ossetia as it's own land going so far as giving it's people russian passports.



Apparently the Georgian army has retreated to the capital, with the Russians having taken over military bases near both Ossetia and Abkhazia. Will the Russians go for the big one, or are they already confident that Georgia's leader will have to step down?

Reuters reporters said that they didn't see Russian troops in Gori, but they did confirm the Georgians' retreat to the capital.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPYmM80WrBHk&refer=worldwide

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LB392248.htm

Two Reuters reporters in Gori said they saw no evidence of a substantial Russian presence in the town.

One said he saw Georgian soldiers leaving in convoys. The second reporters said: "We are right now driving through the town and I see no trace of troops or military vehicles. It is absolutely deserted." The reporter said he later saw a Georgian armoured personnel carrier on fire east of Gori on the highway to Tbilisi. A long convoy of Georgian military trucks was heading away from Gori towards the capital.

 



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Kasz216 said:
Jackson50 said:
NJ5 said:
Jackson50 said:
It is becoming clear that Russia intends to overthrow the Saakashvili presidency. Russia is making veiled threats to other nations that are seeking further integration with the West. I am not sure what President Saakashvili was thinking when he began shelling South Ossetia last week. It was a gross miscalculation, and a lot of the major European powers are blaming Georgia for being irresponsible. Taking that into consideration, I doubt we will see any actions taken by the West. Threatening to expel Russia from the G8 could be a response, but I doubt we will see that.

I don't believe the mainstream media's simplistic statements about how this started. The judge is still out on that.

Russian troops (and maybe Georgian ones) have been amassing near the region for months, so I think we'll have to look a few months back to see who's really to blame.

This region has been building pressure for a long time, and the recent talks about Georgia joining NATO certainly didn't do anything to slow it down.

 

Obviously the reasons as for why this started are more abstruse, but the Georgian shelling in South Ossetia last week was the catalyst for Russia's miltary action. Yes, Russia was goading Georgia into taking military action, but Georgia should have known that using its military to settle this dispute by force would give Russia a reason to act. Of course, the Russians have misplayed their hand by crossing into Georgian territory. If they truly believed this was a justified response like NATO's intervention into Kosovo was, they would have agreed to the cease-fire. It is clear that Russia intends on replacing President Saakashvili and the governing UNM party.

 

Was it the georgian shelling? Or was in the seperists who attacked South Ossetia first.

You are basically saying georgia had no right to protect itself... from itself.

The real problem is that Russia see's South Ossetia as it's own land going so far as giving it's people russian passports.

The real problem is that Russia is using the recognition of Kosovo as a reason to back South Ossetian independence. I knew when some Western nations recognized Kosovo's independence that Russia would use this precedent to support independence movements that serve its interests.

 



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Jackson50 said:
Kasz216 said:
Jackson50 said:
NJ5 said:
Jackson50 said:
It is becoming clear that Russia intends to overthrow the Saakashvili presidency. Russia is making veiled threats to other nations that are seeking further integration with the West. I am not sure what President Saakashvili was thinking when he began shelling South Ossetia last week. It was a gross miscalculation, and a lot of the major European powers are blaming Georgia for being irresponsible. Taking that into consideration, I doubt we will see any actions taken by the West. Threatening to expel Russia from the G8 could be a response, but I doubt we will see that.

I don't believe the mainstream media's simplistic statements about how this started. The judge is still out on that.

Russian troops (and maybe Georgian ones) have been amassing near the region for months, so I think we'll have to look a few months back to see who's really to blame.

This region has been building pressure for a long time, and the recent talks about Georgia joining NATO certainly didn't do anything to slow it down.

 

Obviously the reasons as for why this started are more abstruse, but the Georgian shelling in South Ossetia last week was the catalyst for Russia's miltary action. Yes, Russia was goading Georgia into taking military action, but Georgia should have known that using its military to settle this dispute by force would give Russia a reason to act. Of course, the Russians have misplayed their hand by crossing into Georgian territory. If they truly believed this was a justified response like NATO's intervention into Kosovo was, they would have agreed to the cease-fire. It is clear that Russia intends on replacing President Saakashvili and the governing UNM party.

 

Was it the georgian shelling? Or was in the seperists who attacked South Ossetia first.

You are basically saying georgia had no right to protect itself... from itself.

The real problem is that Russia see's South Ossetia as it's own land going so far as giving it's people russian passports.

The real problem is that Russia is using the recognition of Kosovo as a reason to back South Ossetian independence. I knew when some Western nations recognized Kosovo's independence that Russia would use this precedent to support independence movements that serve its interests.

 

I'd say the real reason was that they caused an attack intentionally by the seperatists and labeled it a genocide after like... a day.

Unlike the actual real genocide in Kosovo.

But hey differing opinions I guess.

Well that and they caused the uprsings in the firstplace during the early 1900's.

Well that and their uneven handling of peacekeeping, support of smuggling, direct spying and in general treating the area like part of russia.



So if Russia plans on putting in a puppet government it's going to have to be a dictatorship? I can't see the Georgians voting in anything pro-Russia for a long time.



Rath said:
So if Russia plans on putting in a puppet government it's going to have to be a dictatorship? I can't see the Georgians voting in anything pro-Russia for a long time.


JOSEPH STALIN: "It doesn't matter who votes, what matters is who counts the votes."

 



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NJ5 said:
Rath said:
So if Russia plans on putting in a puppet government it's going to have to be a dictatorship? I can't see the Georgians voting in anything pro-Russia for a long time.


JOSEPH STALIN: "It doesn't matter who votes, what matters is who counts the votes."

 

 

Would the UN really allow them to go that far?

If so... the whole Iraq invasion might not of been a mistake and instead the mistake just being how it was handled.

I mean if the world is just going to break down to a "Whichever big power makes a move first gets it's way" mentality countries are going to be forced to act early, premeptivly and fast.

May as well lead to a new age of colonialism.



You know guys, I don't mean to belittle this horrific conflict, but I don't think we're quite looking at the shaping of the new world order.



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