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colonelstubbs said:
Like i said, whats wrong with a testing phase?

It's unncessary, and will screw the forums even more than usual. We know that most of the people here aren't mature or civil enough to use this system without abusing it.

 



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twesterm said:

Here's a good example. The Guildhall at SMU forums once decided to have a karma system in place. While there are of course fun topics, it is a professional forum and most things that go on other forums like this one will not fly there. There are no trolls, there is strict monitoring on who signs up, and very strict modding.

They decided to try out a karma system where you could vote up or down a post so many times per day. New users could not vote until they were taken off user probation. It was not anonymous and everyone knew who voted a post down. This sounds like a perfect place for this system and sounds like it should work.

Can you guess what happened?

Even in a place like this people got karma camped because they were having fun with their friends, people got karma camped because people were bored, threads got karma camped because they could, and all hell broke out.

Do you know how long this karma system lasted?

I'm pretty sure it didn't last longer than two weeks. Two weeks Even in a professional highly monitored and strict place like that the system did not work.

What makes you think it would work here?

 

EVERYTHING is based upon implementation.  A poorly designed system will surely fail.  I'm not saying add a "generic" karma system, I'm saying build one from the ground up, using similar principles, but focussed for THIS forum and this forum alone.  Make it restrictive as possible to prevent abuse, yet easy to use.  Yes abuse will happen in ANY forum with a system like this, but it's how you design it to prevent that from happening.



colonelstubbs said:
Like i said, whats wrong with a testing phase?

 

Would I hit myself in the head with a hammer to see if it hurts?  No, I already know it would suck.

I really don't want to go through the headache of listening to all the users on this site bitch about getting karma camped (because they will), going through reports of x user is karma camping y user (because people will), reports that z user is only a sock puppet and used only to vote people and threads down (because people will), and locking thread after thread where people are bitching about the karma system (because people will).

Like I said, in a perfect world this is a wonderful idea but in reality it just doesn't work.  People can come up with rule after rule to keep the system abuse proof as possible but have you ever seen a system not get exploited?  Hell, even on this site Kirby figured out how to make his name pink.



Desroko said:
colonelstubbs said:
Like i said, whats wrong with a testing phase?

It's unncessary, and will screw the forums even more than usual. We know that most of the people here aren't mature or civil enough to use this system without abusing it.

 

How do 'we' know? If it isnt tried, how could you possibly know?

 



I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
         "Suck my balls!" - Tag courtesy of Fkusmot

colonelstubbs said:
Desroko said:
colonelstubbs said:
Like i said, whats wrong with a testing phase?

It's unncessary, and will screw the forums even more than usual. We know that most of the people here aren't mature or civil enough to use this system without abusing it.

 

How do 'we' know? If it isnt tried, how could you possibly know?

 

 

Look at the users on this site and just use what you know about the internet in general.  Do you really think we can be that mature?  I know you think you can be but does that mean everyone else can?

What is that quote from Tommy Boy?

I can get a good look at a T-Bone by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it.

rendo said:
twesterm said:

Here's a good example. The Guildhall at SMU forums once decided to have a karma system in place. While there are of course fun topics, it is a professional forum and most things that go on other forums like this one will not fly there. There are no trolls, there is strict monitoring on who signs up, and very strict modding.

They decided to try out a karma system where you could vote up or down a post so many times per day. New users could not vote until they were taken off user probation. It was not anonymous and everyone knew who voted a post down. This sounds like a perfect place for this system and sounds like it should work.

Can you guess what happened?

Even in a place like this people got karma camped because they were having fun with their friends, people got karma camped because people were bored, threads got karma camped because they could, and all hell broke out.

Do you know how long this karma system lasted?

I'm pretty sure it didn't last longer than two weeks. Two weeks Even in a professional highly monitored and strict place like that the system did not work.

What makes you think it would work here?

 

EVERYTHING is based upon implementation.  A poorly designed system will surely fail.  I'm not saying add a "generic" karma system, I'm saying build one from the ground up, using similar principles, but focussed for THIS forum and this forum alone.  Make it restrictive as possible to prevent abuse, yet easy to use.  Yes abuse will happen in ANY forum with a system like this, but it's how you design it to prevent that from happening.

That example wasn't a generic implementation, it was ground up system that they had been planning for months and months how to implement so people wouldn't get upset.  Like I said above, no matter how many rules you make someone will find a way around and it will get abused.

Also like I said above, people just like you have bitched and bitched for this system and it has never been implemented.  I wonder why?

 



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rendo said:

Non Mod users should be able to moderate a thread with votes like a Thumbs Up/Down.  If a thread gets so many thumbs down it doesn't display on the front page.  It would be useful for a time like now when some retard is spamming about VGC inflating 360 numbers.

No that would be rubbish because there are so many PS3 fans on this site, they just love bringing up 360 negative news to the front page and it would stay there forever.

Negative PS3 stuff would quickly dissappear.

 



sounds like even trying this would be a waste of time and effort.

I'm not one to object to new attempts to allow self moderation, but there are already 5 billion accusations of fanboyism about the approved moderators doing their jobs. throwing even the slightest shred of that ability to where actual trolling fanboys can get to it is just asking for trouble.

And Twesterm is right, no matter what you do, no matter how complex and layered you make the self moderating system work, people will find a way to abuse it, and the system itself is highly flawed for the purpose of these forums.

There are 3 sections being represented in these forums, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. No matter which way you're siding, you end up with a 2 vs 1 mentality. If you try to support one side, then the other two sides are just as likely to vote against that, however if you side AGAINST one company, then the other 2 companies side with you, hence no matter where your alignment is, that self moderating system actually supports negative posts more than positive ones.


Actually, here's my suggestion:

Ignore Individual Thread and Ignore Thread by User options. At the top of every thread, you are given the option to ignore that thread. when you do this, you can still access this thread, and even post in it, but no matter how often it is bumped or replied in, you won't see it on the main page. If you are browsing the individual forum sections, threads that you have marked to ignore will apear grayed out and will not display post or page counts. If you notice that a particular user is creating numerous threads that you don't want to see, you can select that user and ignore all threads made by that user.
This allows every individual member of the site to moderate what they see, but without forcing their opinions on other people. Even if you ignore a thread, other users will still be able to see that thread unless they ignore it as well.
Along with this, if a thread or user is ignored by enough people often enough, it will bring that to the attention of the actual moderators, who can then decide if that user is spamming or if a thread needs locked. This doesn't mean that it WILL be locked, but that it is more likely to be noticed in case it does need locked.



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

<- Click to see more of her

 

@Grey : Meh, if you want that functionality, make it yourself.



Words Of Wisdom said:

@Grey : Meh, if you want that functionality, make it yourself.

Well, I dont' see what good that does the site.

 



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

<- Click to see more of her

 

twesterm said:
rendo said:
twesterm said:
rendo said:
That's why they're only allowed limited points, so they can't repeatedly camp things they don't like. The only get points for contributing. Plus if people do abuse it, they can be punished with not being able to use the points. Plus people that bring down posts/threads, others can bring back up.

I've even seen that abused. 

  1. If you limit the amount of points a user gets, they make multiple accounts.
  2. Even if they can only do so much per day, they will do that every day.
  3. These things are generally anonymous so it's no possible to punish people. 
  4. Even if it wasn't anonymous why should people be punished for giving their opinions on a thread when that very system is about giving opinions?

Believe me when I say this, karma systems do not work and ruin forums.

1.  Limit the points to X amount of posts before you get them.

2. 1 covers that.

3. Make it NOT anonymous.  Add reasons for karma pointing from the users.

4. It's about CONSTRUCTIVE opinions, not DESTRUCTIVE.

 

 

  1. Terrible idea-- having a large amount of posts does not mean you're a good user.  There are many users with less than 100 posts that are better than many of the users with more than 2000 posts.
  2. As Cdude said, having a high post count doesn't put you in an authority position.
  3. So what would you get if it wasn't anonymous?  If I really felt like being a troll I would just make sock puppet account to hide who I am which would then make every user suspicious of every new user or I would say fuck it and karma camp the person anyways.  As long as I don't say I'm giving them a thumbs down because I want to be a troll there's nothing anyone can do.  All they have to do is give a phony reason that's good enough.  As I said, I've seen these systems and they don't work.

In a perfect world where you can expect people on the internet to behave and those trolls that don't behave to actually listen this system works.  Sadly people on  the internet are jerks and trolls won't listen so this system doesn't work.

Again, if you don't like a post or thread either report it or ignore it.   If you don't like either of those two options then too bad.

 

Best post of the year. That doesn't aplly for me but still great post. But I agree with rendo, good thread should be rewarded.

 



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