Tispower said: twesterm said: Actually, the Wii Remote is great for the menus (though you can use the Classic Controller for menus) and shooters (RE4 shows that). I'm actually as accurate with my Wii Remote as I am with a mouse and keyboard and that's even playing sitting in a huge bean bag type thing with my remote hand resting on my lap and my other hand holding the nunchuck resting behind my head. It's just so comfortable. The only reason why I rate the 360 above the Wii Remote is because I have still yet to see a game with great camera controls. I'm really hoping Metroid will fix this, but I'll have to wait and see. I'm still not sure how great the Wii Remote would work for RTS games, but I'm actually going to guess it would be bad only because of lack of buttons (every controller suffers from that). In order to be good at an RTS you need to know the keyboard shortcuts and do things quickly. Anyways, end off topic. So do you like point the Wiimote at the link or something, or use the nunchuck analogue stick, because that's the example I was using, becuase I find using a mouse more accurate than an analgoue stick. So if you're talking about using buttons then you've missed my point.

 Whoops, you're right, I completely missed that somehow.  That's what I get for skimming.  >_>

twesterm said: Tispower said: twesterm said: Actually, the Wii Remote is great for the menus (though you can use the Classic Controller for menus) and shooters (RE4 shows that). I'm actually as accurate with my Wii Remote as I am with a mouse and keyboard and that's even playing sitting in a huge bean bag type thing with my remote hand resting on my lap and my other hand holding the nunchuck resting behind my head. It's just so comfortable. The only reason why I rate the 360 above the Wii Remote is because I have still yet to see a game with great camera controls. I'm really hoping Metroid will fix this, but I'll have to wait and see. I'm still not sure how great the Wii Remote would work for RTS games, but I'm actually going to guess it would be bad only because of lack of buttons (every controller suffers from that). In order to be good at an RTS you need to know the keyboard shortcuts and do things quickly. Anyways, end off topic. So do you like point the Wiimote at the link or something, or use the nunchuck analogue stick, because that's the example I was using, becuase I find using a mouse more accurate than an analgoue stick. So if you're talking about using buttons then you've missed my point. Whoops, you're right, I completely missed that somehow. That's what I get for skimming. >_>

 Lol! and wtf is up with that "Beanbag" thing?

It's called a Love Sac and it's damn amazing. I have the two person one and it's just an incredible gaming chair. Whenever it starts to get flat, you just punch and flip it a few times and immediately fluffs right up.

Excuse the incredibly messy apartment.   

I've said this before, but I don't know how anyone can play First Person Shooters with a Game Pad.

I used to play them -- my first FPS love was Goldeneye, hands down. But then I got in to Half Life, got accustomed to a Mouse/Keyboard, and I've never looked back. This one isn't just a preference, I might add: the few games that have allowed cross-platform play (such as Unreal Tournament) have seen console owners so totally dominated that petitions were made to separate PC users from Console users. Valve and EA have both explicitly stated that CoD and Team Fortress 2 are not offered as cross-platform titles for this exact reason.

I really, really hope that somebody comes up with a controller that is as precise and flexible as the keyboard and mouse for console use. It not only has more accurate turning and pointing (mouse) but dozens if not hundreds more buttons (keyboard).  The Wii mote may be better than a traditional game pad, but I highly doubt it will actually be superior to the PC setup. 

About the only thing a mouse and keyboard have on the Wii Remote and nunchuck combo is that the mouse and keyboard has access to more buttons.

With the Wii, you have the B, A, c, and Z buttons that you have easy access to. With the mouse and keyboard, you have 3 mouse buttons, possible buttons along the sizde of the mouse, and a large amount of keys near your movement keys of choice.

twesterm said: About the only thing a mouse and keyboard have on the Wii Remote and nunchuck combo is that the mouse and keyboard has access to more buttons. With the Wii, you have the B, A, c, and Z buttons that you have easy access to. With the mouse and keyboard, you have 3 mouse buttons, possible buttons along the sizde of the mouse, and a large amount of keys near your movement keys of choice.

So far, I'd say a mouse/keyboard are slightly more accurate, as well, but this may evolve over time (the biggest problem is the sensitivity. Ask any CS professional if they have the sensitivity of the mouse up high or low. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 will have a sensitivity setting of 3 or below). My main complaint is the lack of buttons, yes, which I fully agree is not a problem specific to the Wiimote -- it's true for all console controllers.

Bodhesatva said: I've said this before, but I don't know how anyone can play First Person Shooters with a Game Pad. I used to play them -- my first FPS love was Goldeneye, hands down. But then I got in to Half Life, got accustomed to a Mouse/Keyboard, and I've never looked back. This one isn't just a preference, I might add: the few games that have allowed cross-platform play (such as Unreal Tournament) have seen console owners so totally dominated that petitions were made to separate PC users from Console users. Valve and EA have both explicitly stated that CoD and Team Fortress 2 are not offered as cross-platform titles for this exact reason. I really, really hope that somebody comes up with a controller that is as precise and flexible as the keyboard and mouse for console use. It not only has more accurate turning and pointing (mouse) but dozens if not hundreds more buttons (keyboard).  The Wii mote may be better than a traditional game pad, but I highly doubt it will actually be superior to the PC setup.Â

It seems that most people defending FPS's on consoles always refer to Goldeneye. The problem with this is most people seem to forget that Goldeneye removed the major console FPS detractor by taking aiming out of the equation. The game automatically aimed up or down for you. Of course, it it was too much of a difference to do it automatically, you had to akwardly use the yellow up and down buttons to aim up... no wait too far, down... too far again... up up up and OH CRAP I GOT KILLED!

This is in no way a criticism of such an awesome game. I just wanted to point out that it only pulled off FPS gameplay by removing part of it. I always prefered the controls on turok for that very reason. 

stof said: Bodhesatva said: I've said this before, but I don't know how anyone can play First Person Shooters with a Game Pad. I used to play them -- my first FPS love was Goldeneye, hands down. But then I got in to Half Life, got accustomed to a Mouse/Keyboard, and I've never looked back. This one isn't just a preference, I might add: the few games that have allowed cross-platform play (such as Unreal Tournament) have seen console owners so totally dominated that petitions were made to separate PC users from Console users. Valve and EA have both explicitly stated that CoD and Team Fortress 2 are not offered as cross-platform titles for this exact reason. I really, really hope that somebody comes up with a controller that is as precise and flexible as the keyboard and mouse for console use. It not only has more accurate turning and pointing (mouse) but dozens if not hundreds more buttons (keyboard). The Wii mote may be better than a traditional game pad, but I highly doubt it will actually be superior to the PC setup. It seems that most people defending FPS's on consoles always refer to Goldeneye. The problem with this is most people seem to forget that Goldeneye removed the major console FPS detractor by taking aiming out of the equation. The game automatically aimed up or down for you. Of course, it it was too much of a difference to do it automatically, you had to akwardly use the yellow up and down buttons to aim up... no wait too far, down... too far again... up up up and OH CRAP I GOT KILLED! This is in no way a criticism of such an awesome game. I just wanted to point out that it only pulled off FPS gameplay by removing part of it. I always prefered the controls on turok for that very reason.

 I absolutely agree. Do you think I'm defending console FPS controls? I can't tell if that's your implication :x

 In fact, many console FPS still have auto aim built in. Nothing too serious, but slight degrees. 

Bodhesatva said: twesterm said: About the only thing a mouse and keyboard have on the Wii Remote and nunchuck combo is that the mouse and keyboard has access to more buttons. With the Wii, you have the B, A, c, and Z buttons that you have easy access to. With the mouse and keyboard, you have 3 mouse buttons, possible buttons along the sizde of the mouse, and a large amount of keys near your movement keys of choice. So far, I'd say a mouse/keyboard are slightly more accurate, as well, but this may evolve over time (the biggest problem is the sensitivity. Ask any CS professional if they have the sensitivity of the mouse up high or low. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 will have a sensitivity setting of 3 or below). My main complaint is the lack of buttons, yes, which I fully agree is not a problem specific to the Wiimote -- it's true for all console controllers.

 For a CS professional the difference might matter, but how many of us are really that serious?  I admit, I'm nowhere near a professional at CS, on some maps I can hold my own on internet games and can do decent with friends, but I'm also not what most people would call good (far from it).  Still though, I'm about as accurate with my remote as with my mouse.