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Forums - Gaming - Apple to take over the living room?

Oyvoyvoyv on 07 August 2008
rocketpig said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:

I also checked a bit on your last comment, and I found this, which is kind of interesting.

Apple loses money on Ipods sold in USA, and go even in most countries. They earn in some countries where prices are high, but their overall Ipod hardware sales are at a slight loss.

They lose money on Iphones sold.

They earn minimally from their Macs sold, at least the ones I looked at.

Apple TVs - no idea.

 

So looking at this, they earn pretty much all their money from Itunes, (and a tiny bit from Mac software).

Selling 5 million songs a day isn't all that bad :D

 

This is a nearly worthless thread but that information is really interesting.  Would you please quote your sources?

 

Whoa. I find that information highly suspect. In the past, I know Apple was making huge profits on iPod but not the iTunes Store. I doubt that has changed.

As for the iPhone, it was calculated at launch they were making ~$1000-1500 from each sale once their cut from AT&T was added in (now their contract is done differently). I can't remember the exact number but it was obnoxiously high.

Sorry, but I call BS on that. Apple can't be turning the profits they do and sell their iPods/iPhones at a loss, especially when it contradicts things I have read in the past.

 

 WoW, it's from the Aftenposten newspaper in Norway. They did a 3 page report on Apple, and they stated the Ipod and Iphone facts.

The Mac stuff, I'm unable to find.

The Itunes stuff, was my assumption only. How can you not earn money on selling songs? It doesn't make sense that they aren't making heaps on selling songs downloadable. I mean, what expenses do they really have?



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Plaupius on 08 August 2008
dib8rman said:
Your first paragraph was dead on, which is why I think it would be cool if Home or Sony to clarify did make an OS, for their hardware, if Sony continues their style of driving the bleeding edge. (Their new style) then Home must be it, but the 3d world and how that would work with the simple but indepth functions of a windowed OS would have too many vents before you could get anything done. That's when I read the article where a developer (3rd party) noted that Home litterally had sub parts to it, similar to the structure of a drop tree style used into directories on Windows., that's when the online functions hit me, that the foreseen Home may use some manner of search just like on the internet today, to get to each branch. But my main thing was that XMB would keep it's current simplicity, meaning I would buy that OS, which is why I said I'm viewing it like a consumer. Having something else search for you is much faster than clicking on serveral layers or branches or icons.

Beyond that what this Home could bring to the plate that Windows hasn't brough yet.. the possibilities resemble the new possibilities developers who embraced the Wiimote faced. Specially now with the 1:1.

As for the pointer, I'd figure they are gunning for Eye toy to work as a pointer, but that's just me speculating now and nothing else, I have seen software using it as a pointer in action... it's not user friendly in my opinion though.

Glad to hear I finally understood you :) There are things happening in the virtual-3D-world -dimension, and quite interesting things at that. For many things, having a 3D world allows for an easy and intuitive way for users to approach things they want to do. For example: want to listen to internet radio? Just go to the radio and turn it on and choose your channel. Want to write a document? Go to the desk and start writing on the paper n the desk. There are applications where home automation has been built-in to a Second Life replica of your home, so you can control your home from anywhere and see the changes immediately. If this is the direction where Sony is going with their Home, then I have to adjust my thinking about them, 'cause that's a really long term commitment and a risky strategy that could pay off big time in the next 10-20 years.

If you want to check out a cool open source project, see realXtend. I've met the guy who's kind of behind that project, not technologically but as a driving force and funding it, and what he told about it and his visions for it were really just mind blowing. So, if Sony has similar ambitions for Home, my hat's off for them.



Plaupius on 08 August 2008
Oyvoyvoyv said:
rocketpig said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:

I also checked a bit on your last comment, and I found this, which is kind of interesting.

Apple loses money on Ipods sold in USA, and go even in most countries. They earn in some countries where prices are high, but their overall Ipod hardware sales are at a slight loss.

They lose money on Iphones sold.

They earn minimally from their Macs sold, at least the ones I looked at.

Apple TVs - no idea.

 

So looking at this, they earn pretty much all their money from Itunes, (and a tiny bit from Mac software).

Selling 5 million songs a day isn't all that bad :D

 

This is a nearly worthless thread but that information is really interesting.  Would you please quote your sources?

 

Whoa. I find that information highly suspect. In the past, I know Apple was making huge profits on iPod but not the iTunes Store. I doubt that has changed.

As for the iPhone, it was calculated at launch they were making ~$1000-1500 from each sale once their cut from AT&T was added in (now their contract is done differently). I can't remember the exact number but it was obnoxiously high.

Sorry, but I call BS on that. Apple can't be turning the profits they do and sell their iPods/iPhones at a loss, especially when it contradicts things I have read in the past.

 

 WoW, it's from the Aftenposten newspaper in Norway. They did a 3 page report on Apple, and they stated the Ipod and Iphone facts.

The Mac stuff, I'm unable to find.

The Itunes stuff, was my assumption only. How can you not earn money on selling songs? It doesn't make sense that they aren't making heaps on selling songs downloadable. I mean, what expenses do they really have?

Well, considering other sources, such as iSuppli, it's highly questionable that Apple would be selling their hardware at a loss.

About the iTunes profits, we have the statement from Apple themselves comparing the AppStore to the iTunes store and stating that they're not expecting to profit much directly from the sales of Apps, but they do it to make the iPhone more attractive.

Also, the numbers just don't add up. For each song Apple sells, they have to pay the record companies royalties. They also have to cover the expenses of running the iTunes Store. For AppStore, they take 30% cut, and if they are not intending to make money ut of it, it's a good baseline to estimate the costs of running the iTunes store as well. If we are to believe this source, Apple would take 29 cents of the 99 cents, which is very close to the 30% margin of App Store. Which would pretty much mean that the iTunes business is running at cost.

I already pointed out that if Apple were to get 100% profit from the iTunes sales, it would still only account for about half of their profits, so they are making heaps of money elsewhere. Some of it comes from software sales, and some of it from hardware.



rocketpig on 08 August 2008
Oyvoyvoyv said:
rocketpig said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:

I also checked a bit on your last comment, and I found this, which is kind of interesting.

Apple loses money on Ipods sold in USA, and go even in most countries. They earn in some countries where prices are high, but their overall Ipod hardware sales are at a slight loss.

They lose money on Iphones sold.

They earn minimally from their Macs sold, at least the ones I looked at.

Apple TVs - no idea.

 

So looking at this, they earn pretty much all their money from Itunes, (and a tiny bit from Mac software).

Selling 5 million songs a day isn't all that bad :D

 

This is a nearly worthless thread but that information is really interesting.  Would you please quote your sources?

 

Whoa. I find that information highly suspect. In the past, I know Apple was making huge profits on iPod but not the iTunes Store. I doubt that has changed.

As for the iPhone, it was calculated at launch they were making ~$1000-1500 from each sale once their cut from AT&T was added in (now their contract is done differently). I can't remember the exact number but it was obnoxiously high.

Sorry, but I call BS on that. Apple can't be turning the profits they do and sell their iPods/iPhones at a loss, especially when it contradicts things I have read in the past.

 

 WoW, it's from the Aftenposten newspaper in Norway. They did a 3 page report on Apple, and they stated the Ipod and Iphone facts.

The Mac stuff, I'm unable to find.

The Itunes stuff, was my assumption only. How can you not earn money on selling songs? It doesn't make sense that they aren't making heaps on selling songs downloadable. I mean, what expenses do they really have?

 

Most of the money goes to the label. The rest basically covers overhead. It's possible Apple has streamlined it a bit and is now making money but this was not the case 2-3 years ago. I have no idea what the situation is on movies and video.

As for the article you read, it's entirely possible that the data is very different for Norway than it is for most of the rest of the world. I know that in America, the iPhone is massively profitable. Of course, we know that the contract situations are very different for every country.

It's also possible that Apple is subsidizing some countries in an attempt to cover the market. But I guarantee you that is not the case across the board. Their products have to be profitable or they would be losing money by the boatload, seeing as iPod sales are over 50% of their revenue last I checked.




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akuma587 on 08 August 2008

Why are Rocketpig and dib8rman still arguing?

Yes, the Iphone is a success to all the naysayers. I may not like Apple very much, but they have done well with their Iphone, and it is even in my price range now, but I don't exactly need one.

There was a chance the Iphone would become a fad after sales plummeted shortly after launch and they had to drop the price by $200, but sales picked up, and Apple was really smart about getting a newer, cheaper, and better model out the door very quickly.

Apple may do some things wrong, but they sure as hell know how to market their stuff, and you can't even really call the Iphone overpriced anymore, unless they still have the mandatory contract with that one cellphone provider who charges an arm and a leg, but even then the overall price and quality is significantly better.



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dib8rman on 08 August 2008

Ah good for you, the realXtend seems like a wierd concept - then again I kind of understand... I'd have to read some more about i, but it's not gaining my interest. I'm a simple guy I guess - if I'm not interested I don't pursue it.. it's worked well for me, it's how I determine if I would buy something, then why and then invest.

I see it as being general apps though, similar to what you were describing, the difference though is that seems like a running window, I'm reffering to Home being an application driven virtual space, that is a game.

But I don't believe Home in it's currentlly known direction is sellable even with XMB, maybe 20 milion installed on that platform before it begins to grind unless it can catch a 'cool' wave or has 'must have' content.

But this is about can apple own the living room. So my answer is maybe - I'm not sure if they want to, From what I can tell, they are making a round about trip to dominate the Laptop market by making a smaller laptop with half the functions.. it's very similar to the patter of the Wii, The Wii was released with very few add-ons and a very unique kind of selection as to how it could be defined, as time went on new elements were added to it.

Home seems to be an a simulator on the greater end, I'm not sure how a demographic who would buy 4 million copies of CoD and 2 million copies of Drake Fortuen and so on and so forth would react to a simulator... of course it's free, but that last thing I want in my video games is DLC or in game advertizments.

The more I think about it the more pointless the original question seems, has Apple announced a console? Or does he mean the living room enetertainment set? Sterio, Tv, Dvd player and so on? I just assumed since this is a gaming site the OP meant consoles.



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Oyvoyvoyv on 08 August 2008
rocketpig said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:
rocketpig said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:

I also checked a bit on your last comment, and I found this, which is kind of interesting.

Apple loses money on Ipods sold in USA, and go even in most countries. They earn in some countries where prices are high, but their overall Ipod hardware sales are at a slight loss.

They lose money on Iphones sold.

They earn minimally from their Macs sold, at least the ones I looked at.

Apple TVs - no idea.

 

So looking at this, they earn pretty much all their money from Itunes, (and a tiny bit from Mac software).

Selling 5 million songs a day isn't all that bad :D

 

This is a nearly worthless thread but that information is really interesting.  Would you please quote your sources?

 

Whoa. I find that information highly suspect. In the past, I know Apple was making huge profits on iPod but not the iTunes Store. I doubt that has changed.

As for the iPhone, it was calculated at launch they were making ~$1000-1500 from each sale once their cut from AT&T was added in (now their contract is done differently). I can't remember the exact number but it was obnoxiously high.

Sorry, but I call BS on that. Apple can't be turning the profits they do and sell their iPods/iPhones at a loss, especially when it contradicts things I have read in the past.

 

 WoW, it's from the Aftenposten newspaper in Norway. They did a 3 page report on Apple, and they stated the Ipod and Iphone facts.

The Mac stuff, I'm unable to find.

The Itunes stuff, was my assumption only. How can you not earn money on selling songs? It doesn't make sense that they aren't making heaps on selling songs downloadable. I mean, what expenses do they really have?

 

Most of the money goes to the label. The rest basically covers overhead. It's possible Apple has streamlined it a bit and is now making money but this was not the case 2-3 years ago. I have no idea what the situation is on movies and video.

As for the article you read, it's entirely possible that the data is very different for Norway than it is for most of the rest of the world. I know that in America, the iPhone is massively profitable. Of course, we know that the contract situations are very different for every country.

It's also possible that Apple is subsidizing some countries in an attempt to cover the market. But I guarantee you that is not the case across the board. Their products have to be profitable or they would be losing money by the boatload, seeing as iPod sales are over 50% of their revenue last I checked.

 

 The article does say WW, but I guess it's incorrect. After all, you guys probably have more of a clue than the journalist.

Sorry for writing incorrect numbers then.



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Plaupius on 08 August 2008
dib8rman said:
Ah good for you, the realXtend seems like a wierd concept - then again I kind of understand... I'd have to read some more about i, but it's not gaining my interest. I'm a simple guy I guess - if I'm not interested I don't pursue it.. it's worked well for me, it's how I determine if I would buy something, then why and then invest.

I see it as being general apps though, similar to what you were describing, the difference though is that seems like a running window, I'm reffering to Home being an application driven virtual space, that is a game.

But I don't believe Home in it's currentlly known direction is sellable even with XMB, maybe 20 milion installed on that platform before it begins to grind unless it can catch a 'cool' wave or has 'must have' content.

But this is about can apple own the living room. So my answer is maybe - I'm not sure if they want to, From what I can tell, they are making a round about trip to dominate the Laptop market by making a smaller laptop with half the functions.. it's very similar to the patter of the Wii, The Wii was released with very few add-ons and a very unique kind of selection as to how it could be defined, as time went on new elements were added to it.

Home seems to be an a simulator on the greater end, I'm not sure how a demographic who would buy 4 million copies of CoD and 2 million copies of Drake Fortuen and so on and so forth would react to a simulator... of course it's free, but that last thing I want in my video games is DLC or in game advertizments.

The more I think about it the more pointless the original question seems, has Apple announced a console? Or does he mean the living room enetertainment set? Sterio, Tv, Dvd player and so on? I just assumed since this is a gaming site the OP meant consoles.

Well, at the moment realXtend is in pre-alpha stages, so it's going to change a lot, get more advanced. From what I understood, the idea behind realXtend is the openness of it: it is a platform for creating virtual worlds, services and whatever you can imagine. Of course, since it's running on a PC now, it's an application running in a window, but there's no reason why it couldn't be what Home perhaps will be. But like you said, this is not about Apple. And about Apple, I don't believe they will enter the game console market, though they might extend the Apple TV such that you can download apps from the AppStore. But at the current rate, calling Apple TV a hobby, it doesn't seem that Apple is that interested in taking over the living room. Of course, it could all be a smoke screen...

 



Mr.Y on 08 August 2008

Nerds.



Oyvoyvoyv on 09 August 2008

Apple does NOT lose money on each Iphone. It's just that some freaking stupid journalist who wrote it in my paper.

An Iphone costs ~ 220 dollars on each. They sell it for 600 dollars.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/07/02/that-599-iphone-costs-220-to-make/

3G costs 170 dollars to make.

http://www.mobilewhack.com/apples-3g-iphone-costs-just-17433-to-make/


According to this: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/01/business/01online.html?ex=1309406400&en=616d9d8a7e57500f&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss


According to this: Apple makes 30-40% pr Ipod shuffle sold. http://www.pcworld.com/article/119799/how_much_should_an_ipod_shuffle_cost.html

Now, Apple said that 46% of their revenue comes from Ipod hardware in 2007.
We can now estimate their profit pr Ipod, assuming they make roughly as much on the other Ipods, as they make on shuffle.

Their revenue was 24B for 2007. So they had an 11B revenue for Ipods.

They sold 52M Ipods in 2007. http://www.systemshootouts.org/ipod_sales.html

This means that their average Ipod sold for 211 dollars.

If we go low end, and say 30%, this means a profit of 60 dollars pr Ipod sold.

Isuppli estimates that Apple TV costs 237 dollars to make (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070606_984317.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives)

Apple sells it for 299 dollars in America, and I estimate that WW it would be around 350. So they make ~ 100 dollars on Apple TVs.


So I apologize. I was wrong.




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