Blu Ray would have been in because Sony owns a large part of the rights to the tech just like DVD was obviously going to be in in 2001. Yes the gen might have started a bit later (especially given how well the PS2 continues to do) but I doubt it would have been 2008.

The PS2 had no real competition and still was a beast of a machine for the time. This idea that MS is doing everyone a favor by making Sony and Nintendo try harder is just patently untrue. Sony makes quality machines with high end capabilities both because thats the kind of company Sony is, and because high end machines sell high end hardware (Bravia HDTVs, Sony speakers, Sony receivers with HDMI support, blu rays ect). Their electronics profits have grown by leaps and bounds since the release of the PS3 and I doubt thats a coincidence.

MS is doing noone a favor by being in video games as anything more then a publisher, not even their shareholders (since it can't maintain profitability).

I get tired of all the pc/360/ps3 garbage. People shouldn't buy dvds or blu-rays because film is infinitely more detailed and if you really want the best experience you should go to an IMAX or movie theatre. Or better yet, get a film projector installed in your house. 60" plasma/lcd/dlp? Hmph...garbage.

I buy consoles to have fun playing games.  And guess what?  The 360 has fun games.  Full stop.

   Handheld games is a casual market.  Look at how badly the black and white gameboy trounced the game gear.  That said the PSP has done very well, compare it with the gamegear which barely broke 10 million vs a black and white machine.  Also the PSP has a very serious piracy problem which doesn't help software sales. 

   Nintendo core titles only buy about 20-30 million in sales (see gamecube and N64), again a lot of the HD gamers are not devoted to mario games unless they grew up on Mario (which less of the generation coming up, by which I mean those under 20, did).  Casual friendly controls of course buy more for the Wii, but there are a lot of people who really really like quality cinematic games.  GTA4 has sold 10 million copies without being bundled at all for instance, ditto for Call of Duty 4.  I don't know how/why you don't understand the very different perspective of a lot of gamers who really really do care about things like graphics, we're not some tiny minority (again I point to the sales of big adult titles both in this generation and in the PS2/PS1 generations).

   What are you going to play on that projector?  The only way a 1080p projector looks any good with a big screen is with (drumroll) blu rays.   I did install one of those systems at my parents house for them (christmas present for dad) and it does look pretty awesome.

   Blu Rays look significantly better then DVDs on 46 inch or bigger TVs, but once you go over 60 inches its like night and day. 

Which is why I said (drumroll)film projector.  If you really want top notch, buy film.

EDIT: 35mm film.

 i went to Imax to see I am legend and all that gave me was a eye and neck pain...also the buildings being curved made me dizzy if you know what im talking about...i don't know if it was just that movie but its unlikely for me to go see imax again

I dont know what to say, I dont even know where to begin.

Perhaps a lol will do.

You're missing my point.. yes Sony makes high quality things.. but maybe they went too far with the PS3.. and made it too expensive in the beginning.. They would have probably made a less powerfull product if there wasn't a xbox360.. The xbox360 forced them to produce a even higher quality product.. which sony did not like.. because the ps3 is losing way too much money.. the xbox360 is now at it's turning point for making profit (there are some threads about this created today)

And because the 360 was the first of this generation it really pushed the development of games.. otherwise you would be playing games from 2006 on your PS3 now..

Well if the wii is winning by 60%(acording to the sales numbers you would think the ps3 and wii woudl be at without the 360 present)  rather than 46% do you think it would get alot more 3rd party support? Or would they develop for the console with only 40% of the market and use more money. Right now alot of 3rd party developers are grouping the 360 and ps3 together as one platform in terms of userbase, but if the 360 wasn't present they couldn't do that, and most likely would develop alot more big titles for the Wii than they do now. That means less games for PS3 owners, and that is my whole point with my first post. Also the gamer gear lost because the battery life was horrible, and the Gameboy had a much better selection of games. So I don't see how that makes the  Handheld market a casual one. I say the handheld market is just like the Console market in terms of demographs.

There are a few problems I have with the post. First, competition drives innovation. Without the 360 as competition, the Sony would not be driven to include more and better online features for the PS3. Also, it is unlikely that Sony would have been forced to drop the price of the PS3 faster. So, the 360 has been a positive influence on the market for Sony fans. This is the essence of competition. The Wii is not competition for Sony in the HD game market, so Sony would have felt perfectly comfortable to soak up all the HD exclusives and not innovate further.

Sony has been in constant competition with its other consoles. However, with the PS2 being so completely dominant over the GameCube, Dreamcast, and Xbox, Sony created the PS3 with the concept in mind that ever publisher would automatically follow them. They made no attempt to lock down any exclusives, even though game developers were calling them, and they took no cue from Microsofts XBL that online gaming was going to be a big thing. So, the idea that Sony just creates amazing products on their own is ridiculous. They create good products when they feel they have competition. All of Sony's products have competition and that forces them to be competitive. The second they feel they don't have competition, you get what happened with the PS3 launch. A complete disaster. The PS3 is still recovering from that. No, Sony needs competition just like everyone else.

I give this thread a 9.4.