Who says I don't like Tetris style games? Who says I don't like the sims? You assume I don't like these games because I also play Gears of War or God of War. Shows how narrow minded you are. I guess I will go play my bloody teen games now and leave this conversation to the adults with their brain ages.

It might have been kiddie playing video games years ago when the older generations were non gamers, but now the average age of the person playing Halo is not in the low teens and it will go further and further up as gamers grow up and there are more of them in the coming generations.

To somehow tell me that violent video games are immature is pretty baseless as violence is probably the topic that has most interested man throughout the ages and engaging in simulated violence does not make it automatically less than playing a strategy game.

Oh come on ckmlb, in your list of favorite movies you list 300! Now that is not fair. Just because you like Marilyn Manson doesn't mean that 50 cents is ruining music. To me basically the music is the same. if for example you listened to chopin or vivaldi, then your argument could make sense.
The thing is, in your eyes you are hardcore, while in a true hardcore musician you are definitely super softcore. Obviously you can't keep on insisting that whoever you like is hardcore, while the rest is softcore.
To me someone who is truly hardcore still enjoys pacman, while no graphics at all.
I don't mean this specificly to you, it applys to everyone who feels like you.

Super soft core musician... ok then.

 Again with the assumptions about me being a graphics whore. Where did I state that? Where did I ever say a game that looks better graphically is automatically better than a game that has no graphics at all? To me recently some of the best games I've played have been Lumines, Rez, Planet Puzzle League, Guitar Hero which literally all are minimalists in graphics.

Demographics are really the only possible way to clearly define art. Otherwise, you can claim that Lord of the Rings is as deep and serious a work as Shakespeare, and I literally have no way to argue against it, other than to say that well educated people tend to disagree. What else do I say? Other than writing a thesis paper, I have nothing else. 

Simple example! Find any fine artistic medium -- Opera, Classical Music, or heck, even Bob Dylan, Art House Movies, Great Literature, Sculpture, Painting, Architecture -- any one that is preferred by 15-23 year old males and shunned by adults. Guess what, they don't exist! 

Now, let's name the "crappy" arts, as you put it. I can find a ton -- reality shows, action movies, horror movies, pop music. Guess what? These all target the same audience as God of War. 15-25 year old males.

Again, there's absolutely no way to "prove" that Shakespeare is more sophisticated than, say, Uwe Bole movies. What do I say, other than "obviously, it is?" The only thing we have to go by is who tends to be attracted to these different mediums, as well educated adults would, in general, greatly prefer Shakespeare to "Blood Rayne." The fact that reality shows and "crappy movies" that you so demean are enjoyed by the SAME DEMOGRAPHIC that likes God of War is the best possible objective evidence one can give that these are analogous. 

 Once again, who am I (or you) to say the someone's opinion is wrong?  I think 50 Cent or P Diddy Puff Dude or whatever name is are all absolute crap and sounds like a CD is skipping but I know that there are people that actually like that garbage and think the things I like are garbage.

As for Spiderman, the movie was all around bad just because they decided to find out what the limit was that could be put in a movie and then add more but it did have some great action sequences that made it worth watching.  Once again, just because you hated it doesn't mean it wasn't worth making, the fact that you saw it says something.  I suppose a good ending point would be that games are about making money before anything, not about making fun (though the more fun the more money). 

I'm just glad he doesn't listen to Tool.

Yup. If you didnt understand I could explain it again. Since you listen to Marilyn Manson and types like him(and I myself am also in this catagory) the Pavarotti and Placido Domingo's consider you softcore and very very shallow. Thats the way it is. They consider themselves hardcore (and in my opinion rightfully so)

I also never said anything about you being a graphical whore. I just stated my opinion on the matter there. What I meant by that sentence was that a true hardcore gamer would not be attached to the graphics as much as most people here are (not necassarily you). The pacman example was to prove my point.

Here's another task for you, Ckmlb:

Go find me any movie or book, ever, that has been canonized and deals with a super spy killing hundreds of bad guys. Any one. Or heck, how about a super soldier killing hundreds of space aliens? Or a World War II soldier killing hundreds of Nazis?