It's pretty funny actually

"I buy consoles to avoid having to do installs, that's the whole point"

and now...

The 360 already has games that require a HDD.

I think PS3 installs versus 360 installs equal out each other.......

PS3 installs give the games more depth without the need to disc swap while 360 installs are more convenient for the 360 due to the lack of Bluray and it helps the physical life of the 360 console.

I'm sure someone has a list, not that it really matters for anything other than the purpose of this argument.

Most PS3 games do have an install although the number of games that require a significant amount of resources transferred to HDD (over 1GB to throw out a number) is considerably less.

Large installs: MGS4, GTAIV, Assassin's Creed, Oblivion, Heavenly Sword, Virtua Tennis 3

Small installs (to include soft updates, map packs, tracks, etc.): Resistance, MotorStorm, Eye of Judgment, Folklore, Stranglehold, Time Crisis 4 (full install option available), Call of Duty 4, UTIII (full install option available), Rock Band.

Most of the small installs include downloadable extras, map packs, characters, updates, tracks, etc. which would be the same data seen on an Xbox version of a given game.

That's from a 20 game sample.

GT5P and Warhawk really don't make the list since they are PSN games available on Blu-Ray. Is it puzzling that these games would come published on optical media, yet still require the same install as the downloaded version? Yes. Is it any different from a game available on Direct to Drive/Steam as well as retail packaging? No.

What consumers are in effect paying for are installer discs that must be in the drive to confirm purchase. Either could have been published on a single sided DVD.

Personally, I do find the increased reliance upon installs to be bothersome, particularly since it's becoming the standard, but hardly an issue in deciding which platform is "better."

The ability to install any 2.5" HDD alone makes the PS3 preferable from the standpoint of storage constraints and options.

In terms of convenience, the 360 definitely wins the Pop and Play selling point that the PC doesn't provide and the PS3 is often missing.

Soul Caliber IV was rumored to require an install (since claimed to be false along with the hilarious 6GB PS3 install FUD).

What other games? I'm assuming they're clearly marked as such.

I'll take a small install with no load times, thanks. Saves HDD space. Even with a 320GB drive.

A smaller install is always preferable, although without transferring game or code resources to HDD, it shouldn't make a significant difference.

Large installs are mainly an initial inconvenience that -should- result in better game performance/playback, although if a game is not a load intensive game (only between long levels for example) and doesn't support texture streaming, the inconvenience really doesn't offset the benefits.

And yes, presumably those who opt for larger HDDs in their PS3s are not doing so to allow them to install more games but rather to allow for more demos, more additional content, videos and PSN store purchases, media files, etc.

If I heard the former, it would be a first.

you fools, you fall into the trap. You have a 20 gig hard drive, M$ say were are going to allow you to put the games on the hard drive. You think, wow thats great, faster load times and away to shut up the ridiculous noise this next gen console makes. hold on i don't have enough space on my hard drive i will go out and buy the bigger one at a ridiculous price. M$ think to themselves, well done guys more money for us, good thinking, all those 20 gig owners upgrading , ha ha we've done it again.

This reminds me of all the people who had a 360, then the Elite came out and went " WOW i am going to get one of them to go along side my premium, it's got an HDMI port and is black."
I have a 360 but I'm not falling for this one, i will continue to use the disc drive for what it was built (obviously not very well) for.

 So you've obviously NEVER bought a 2nd memory card for your PS2 now?

Wierd, i never had the option to install a game on my memory card. Plus it's completely different, with my memory card i just deleted game saves to free slots, if i decided to install games on my hard drive i would be unlikely to delete them until i got rid of the game. What i am saying is, everyone says how the 360 is cheaper than the PS3 but at the end of the day it is not. I have to buy all official stuff to level it out and it would of ended up costing me more. This is the price the consumer pays for M$ here and now attitude. Get it out here and now before the competition and we will deal with the rest later, hence all the problems with the hardware. I am all for installs but for people like me , paying a price for them is not next gen and shows a lack of foward thinking when they stuck 20gig in the original 360.