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Forums - Nintendo - Square-Enix using Nintendo to pay for Final Fantasy 13 etc?

Kasz216 on 13 July 2008
the_bloodwalker said:
Soriku said:
the_bloodwalker said:
Bored4life said:

Crystal Tools was never supposed to multiplatform as they later claimed.Some study of SE during Nov07 to Jan08 shows pretty good evidence that Wada wanted to shift FF13 to Wii despite the enormous costs already put in.

Crystal Tools had 2 purposes for being on Wii.

1)Port over FF13.There is evidence to show that this was the main motivation to the port.But it seems that that fell through since most likely Iwata didn't moneyhat them like they wanted.They weren't too sure if rpgs would do well and wanted money as insurance.

2)Push Wii gaphics and have it to start putting out well made rpgs to compete with the other well made rpgs that are being announced for the system.the_bloodwalker's post sums up that part nicely.

Exactly. SE got the Licence of Unreal III engine to develop multiplatform games, not the Cristal Tools. That was made to fully use the PS3, their platform of choice.

You're right about the disruption, SE got cought off guard will the Wii's success. They understood that they had to move. They thought with Chocobo's Dungeon and their original Cristyal Bearers it would be enough, but now they have to shift resources and reorganize internally.

While the FFXIII port came to my mind, it made think of a remake of FFVII more possible on Wii because of the franchise's fame and will be a lot easier to strike back hard with a known title. On the other hand, it would look like that they are using theur previois games as defense for not developing an original title.

This is why Crystal Bearers will be made as close to a final Fantasy game as possible in terms of quality. But besides Chocobo's Dungeon, they need a full RPG flagship. the chances are

  1. FFXIII, which I find it hard. Sony needs this game more than any other.
  2. FFVII remake, but will have to be less like the Adven Childern models and more like the CG cutscenes from the PS1 game. Besides it may give an image that they are unable to make original games successful on Wii.
  3. Kingdom Hearts 3, but if the rumors about the NA version of the PS2 games that weren't localized, this is ruled out. Besides Sony would not let it go as well that easily.
  4. Revive with Full Strenght other franchises: Chrono, Mana, Musasshi, Saga.

I find it hard to come up with an original IP for the need to stop a disruption



How would this be ruled out? Just localizing it on the PS2 is easier than porting it to the Wii, then localizing it. it would just make sense, not SE/Disney say "O noz Wii is not for us!" Besides, Sony wouldn't do anything. They haven't done anything to DQ. They haven't done anything to Star Ocean. Why do something for KH now? It's not like Sony has any say in where SE/Disney games go.

 

you have to consider tham many wii owners have never played a KH game nor know anything about the story. The Kingdom hearts games revolve around one big story so releasing KH3 without any prequel many gamers will be confused, and a confusing game is not attractive to new gamers.

And a comic-style backsory wouldn't help either. It would be much better in terms of sales to release a quick port of the first two games before the release of KH3 if it comes to Wii. That Way KH3 will sell much more.

You also have to consider that many likely have. At this point in it's lifetime it seems likely more PS2 owners own Wii's then PS3 owners. This is only going to be more likely and more true as time goes on.

The vast majority of people aren't fanboys with diehard brand name loyalty. Most people just get the system that they perceive as best.

Hence the SNES to PS1 move, and now the PS2 to Wii move.  Expanding audience is only part of new sales.



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Punisher on 13 July 2008
Impulsivity said:
The RPGs cater to the demos of the different systems and the power of the systems. You're never going to get a AAA title like FF's main series on a Nintendo since they are so far behind the graphics curve and the FF series has been billed as the premier graphics showcase RPG for over a decade now (since FFVII hit the PS1). I even remember OLD Square adds that mocked Nintendo openly. One for FFVII said something like "if this was on N64 it would take 700 cartridges". Unless you're Nintendo, the Wii (and other Nintendo systems) is where you put your spinoffs, casual games and the like. AAA titles are usually considered AAA based on their presentation, and its near impossible to get a modern looking game out of the Wii. I doubt most Wii owners bought it for games like Metal Gear or Final Fantasy (the main series) anyway, they bought it for the games Nintendo systems have always had; casual friendly games that many would call "old school".

Also for those talking about things like Infinite Undiscovery and Star Ocean for the 360 that is NOT Square. It's from the Enix days. Enix always had a tiny dev studio and mainly worked as a publisher. Both Star Ocean and Infinite Undiscovery come not from Square-Enix but from Tri Ace, one of the devs that Enix published for regularly. Project Silpheed and other games like that are the same type, they're not mainline Square games developed in house, they're little games from other studios that Square-Enix publishes. Sony owns a nearly 10% stake in Square-Enix (3rd biggest shareholder) so I doubt they would accept the premier RPG series, FF, going anywhere else.

The only real wildcard is Kingdom Hearts, the Wii matches its demographics but it seems like a game Sony would want to use to expand its reach to more casuals and Kids. Maybe Sony would need to buy more shares or something to get a guarantee on it.

 

Care to explain why didn't Gamecube get FF main series games according to your logic ? :p

 

It wouldn't do a hoot if other shareholders say that they can make more money on Wii, than Ps3.

 



Nothing's cheaper than something free.

F1 vs FOTA, when too much power is in couple peoples hands.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Oyvoyvoyv on 13 July 2008
Impulsivity said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:
CrazzyMan said:
FFXIII will sell over 10 mln. and will be BEST selling FF game for now... =)

 

 Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You expect the following.

- Final Fantasy XIII will sell 10M. That is to be the best selling FF ever.

You expect this even though

- Final Fantasy XIII is on the console that is likely to be the second worst (perhaps worst) selling console a main FF has ever been on.

- Final Fantasy XIII is on a console that is strongest in the region Final Fantasy is weakest in.

 

     First off Final Fantasy sales are BEST when its the first FF on a new console.  FFX, which was released BEFORE there was a large install base for the PS2, is the best selling FF game of all time.  Before that FFVII was handily the best selling one.  It's not a stretch to think that FFXIII will be the new best seller.  I think there's a REALLY good chance it will be bundled in Japan as well just like the FFVII PSP game was.  I am 99.9% sure that within a few weeks of FFXIII's release, if its good, Square could move over a million console/game bundles in Japan alone.  In 2001, not long after the PS2's initial release, FFX moved over 2 million copies in a few days in Japan alone.  Given that metal Gear Solid 4, which is not nearly as popular a series in FF in Japan did very well, Final Fantasy XIII has a very good shot at hitting nearly 10 million worldwide and becoming the best selling RPG/FF game ever.  The only thing I think is likely to stop that is it being somehow a huge stinker like FFIX was, but I doubt that will be the case.

 

   They just need to get the damn thing out, preferably before December.

 

 

- MGS 4 may have done really well in Japan, but it still sold less than 1/4 than FFX did in Japan. This does by no means tell us that FFXIII will do as well as FFX.

- The installbase in Japan is likely to be maximum 3 times the sales of FFX in Japan. Thinking that it will make 33% is stretching it. Combine that with the fact that the Ps3 isn't likely to make 10M there, and you can see that it will probably not sell close to 3M there, which FFX did.

- FFX is not the best selling FF. FFVII sold almost 25% more than FFX. If the trend follows, it would mean 6M for FFXIII, not 10M, as you say. It will probably beat 6M though.

- FFX launched on an installbase of 8M in America, 7.1M in Japan, and 8.1M in Others. You are correct in your assumption that the FFXIII launch will be fairly equal to this. It will be lower in Japan, higher in Others, and equal in America.

- The game will probably not be out for half a year. But your assumption that the sooner it's out, the more sales, is wrong.

 



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

the_bloodwalker on 13 July 2008
Kasz216 said:

You also have to consider that many likely have. At this point in it's lifetime it seems likely more PS2 owners own Wii's then PS3 owners. This is only going to be more likely and more true as time goes on.

The vast majority of people aren't fanboys with diehard brand name loyalty. Most people just get the system that they perceive as best.

Hence the SNES to PS1 move, and now the PS2 to Wii move.  Expanding audience is only part of new sales.

 

 I consider that two. But the game will not expand if the story is too much dependant of the previous ones.

Ps2 owners that became Wii onwers will feel it natural.

GC owners/others that became Wii owners.... ???? 



Dgc1808 on 13 July 2008

This can have some thing to do with it:

Finally, a question about Square Enix's trends of late towards a focus on portable hardware versus consoles. "True titles for the current generation have yet to be released," Wada responded, while admitting that the current challenge is to do just that. "Regarding resources, we're putting a large number of people on console software development. Until those [titles] are released, we have to increase revenues from our portable software."

http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79730


Square Enix announced today its midterm results for the year, covering April to September 2007. Hidden among all the massive yen figures was talk of upcoming game developments.

First, the numbers. Sales for the period stood at 72.2 billion yen, down 4.9% from the same period last year. Operating income was up 6.4% to 9.8 billion yen.

Looking in particular at the company's games business, sales in the offline division were up 6.6% to 20.448 billion yen. Operating income in this division dropped 3.8% to 4.147 billion yen. The company's online games business saw a 29.5% drop in sales to 5.413 billion yen, with income dropping 13.5% to 2.864 billion yen.

Japan was the company's biggest market. Over the six month period, the company sold 3.94 million pieces of software in its home territory, ahead of the 1.32 million in North America and 1.61 million in Europe.

The company's biggest titles for the term were all available only in Japan. Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII topped the list with 710,000 units sold. Final Fantasy XII Revenant Wings came in at second with 530,000 units sold. In third, Dragon Quest Sword and its 490,000 units.

Numbers aside, the real meat of the earnings statement came as president Yoichi Wada fielded questions from investors at the company's earnings conference today.

The burning question was, of course, a release date for Dragon Quest IX. Unfortunately, Wada would only say that a date hasn't been finalized, and that it probably won't happen before the end of the current fiscal year (March 08). Currently, the game is flagged with a general 2008 date.

Wada was asked to comment on reports from a while back regarding stoppage of development on the White Engine, the internal engine that's being used for Final Fantasy XIII. "Development on the White Engine has not stopped," responded Wada. He admitted that there is some feeling of unease within the company, as those using the engine to make games have not yet become accustomed with it.

One questioner suggested that Square Enix has a difficult time creating new franchises. To this, Wada pointed to Dragon Quest Sword, Square Enix's involvement in the Wii Ware program, Final Fantasy XI, and the DS Style series.

Finally, a question about Square Enix's trends of late towards a focus on portable hardware versus consoles. "True titles for the current generation have yet to be released," Wada responded, while admitting that the current challenge is to do just that. "Regarding resources, we're putting a large number of people on console software development. Until those [titles] are released, we have to increase revenues from our portable software."



4 ≈ One

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Mint on 13 July 2008

Besides the Dreamcast, PS2 was the weakest of last gen.

I find it funny how Sony fans are laughing at the Wii's graphics, though the PS2 had the most limitations last gen.



 

I own all of lastgen systems as of October 2008. (Finally got a Dreamcast)

I own every currentgen system except PS3.

Dgc1808 on 13 July 2008
Mint said:

Besides the Dreamcast, PS2 was the weakest of last gen.

I find it funny how Sony fans are laughing at the Wii's graphics, though the PS2 had the most limitations last gen.

 

I also wonder why people make fun of the Wii. Perhaps the Hardware differences between the the wii and the other 2 consoles are just too far different than between the ps2 and it's 2 MAIN competitors.....



4 ≈ One

Bingoo on 13 July 2008
BengaBenga said:
Bingoo said:
FishyJoe said:

Big franchises are expected to pull in mega profits. Look at GTAIV, that game alone pretty much keeps T2 alive. The same goes with SE, their big franchises are expected to pull in huge profits or the company will shrivel and die.

If low budget shovelware were so profitable, then THQ would be king. Instead EA, Activision and to a lesser degree SE are the big dogs because they have the big names pulling in big profits.

 

 thank goodness fishyjoe said something before i did.

Seriously shovelware is not king and spin offs will not pay for big franchises.  FF 13 wil sell MORE then enough to make up for its development cost.

FF on the DS is a joke to its fans. Honostly if i heard the next one was going on the ds id flip shit and i know a whole bunch of people who would as well. Honostly, FF is pinacle of RPGS and one of the kings of storytelling, graphics, and gameplay. Putting it on the DS ruins all that. DQ is much more fitting for DS because of its art style, gameplay, and graphics.

 

 

The cost of the major HD projects is absurd at the moment. It is quite reasonable to think that (unless Sony paid) Metal Gear Solid 4 did not make a profit yet. The development costs are supposed to be around $75 million. You can't make a huge profit if you're around 3 million sold (to retailers, but that's where Konami gets its money).
Same for GTA4, it costed an insane $100 million. This one has made a decent profit, but not a very big one compared to the PS2 versions.
FF13 faces the same problems. Sure it will sell a lot, but it also NEEDS to sell a lot. You have to take into acount that companies want a certain return on investment, that for the big titles should be at least around 30%, but probably more.

 

Yes, i think we all know sony slid something under the table to konami in order to make it exclusive, whether it was royalties or money who knows. Its pretty safe to say konami is fine with it.

GT4 will make a insane ammount of money, with the deal they struck with MS they have every reason to spend that much with how much bonus they are getting.

FF 13 will need to sell ALOT. But by the time it comes out ps3 should have a good userbase, and it will sel more then MGs4 for sure.



Owner of all consoles cept DS.....Currently in love with prototype!

Ghutto on 13 July 2008

You forget "Soul Eater" (DS/Wii).



Renar on 13 July 2008

SE needs to develope for both consoles and portables. Suppose SE hadn't developed for the PS2 and before the FF, etc, games it did. It would have eliminated a number of cheaper ports that sell well enough to help add profits to the original game selling on the consoles. The FF 13 of PS3 will be ported in one way or another to the DS2 / PSP2 and earned profits quite nicely.

Of course, new IPs are needed for the portables since they can be produced for less and sell okay. Partially because SE's name is known. Why? Again because of the console hits.



Torturing the numbers.  Hear them scream.