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Forums - Nintendo - Is the Wii benefiting or hurting hardcore gamers?

Gnizmo on 09 July 2008
Ail said:
it's done nothing to hardcore gamers as the only hardcore game on the Wii are Nintendo games that would have been on that platform no matter its success anyway....

Hardcore gamers not into Nintendo games can pretty much ignore the Wii like they did the previous gen with the GC and get the game they like on their usual platforms..

 Metal Slug Anthology, No More Heroes, Medal of Honor 2, Manhunt 2, Red Steel, Sonic and the Secret Rings. 2 DBZ fighters, and a host ofothers I am too lazy to look up. Yeah the only hardcore games on the Wii are made by Nintendo.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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kingofwale on 09 July 2008
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
The Wii will definitely hurt hardcore gamers.

Core gamers however will love the Wii more and more over time.

What is the difference?

 

What both groups have in common is that they play a lot of games, gaming is their favorite pastime. The difference is that they look for different values in games. The hardcore gamer wants graphics, realism and "maturity" in his games, while the core gamer is looking for new gaming experiences and doesn't care too much about how a game looks.

@HappySqurriel: That's already the second hilarious analogy you posted today. Keep doing that.

Then I'm not considering myself a hardcore gamer anymore. I'm a core gamer. Oh and then where do the casuals fit in?

@Ail Your right, because the wii gets core games.

@KoW What are you talking about Tales of Symphonia 2 sold almost the same as the original. Also it will probably outsell most hardcore games on the ps3 in its lifetime.

@Pristine I beleive chocobo dungeon originated on the ps1.

 

it sold close to 180K first week (the one on GC did), and 40K+ second week. Wii has close to 3 times the install base than GC had at the point. Selling LESS means there's potentially no gain of hardcore gamer from GC days.

 

as for most hardcore games on PS3... well, it might not sell over 300K, so let's see. it really depends on what you mean by "most".

 

Which nintendo wasn't trying to do. They were trying to expand the nongamers. Also I think we should wait and see what the game does lifetime before saying it sold bad. So I think your argument is pretty poor to show that core games don't sell on the wii. ANd according to vgchartz TOS2 sold 160k 20 less than the original. Oh and when I say most I mean more than half.

 

 

when a proven JRPG franchise only sells more than half of ALL PS3 games in Japan, it's pretty sad. And we are talking about 4 times the install base?

I believe my argument makes perfect sense. Unless you disagree the game's lifetime number I predicted. As for HARDcore games not selling on Wii... well, the arguments have been stated many times. Tales has shown again, if you want, we will wait for Fatal Frame 4.



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
Baddman on 10 July 2008

should've known king of fail would have poked his head into this topic to spew more jargon and do his daily trolling efforts



noname2200 on 10 July 2008
Baddman said:
should've known king of fail would have poked his head into this topic to spew more jargon and do his daily trolling efforts

 

Boy's gotta have a hobby. But let him dream: industry trends don't seem to be offering him many other comforts.



sc94597 on 10 July 2008
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
The Wii will definitely hurt hardcore gamers.

Core gamers however will love the Wii more and more over time.

What is the difference?

 

What both groups have in common is that they play a lot of games, gaming is their favorite pastime. The difference is that they look for different values in games. The hardcore gamer wants graphics, realism and "maturity" in his games, while the core gamer is looking for new gaming experiences and doesn't care too much about how a game looks.

@HappySqurriel: That's already the second hilarious analogy you posted today. Keep doing that.

Then I'm not considering myself a hardcore gamer anymore. I'm a core gamer. Oh and then where do the casuals fit in?

@Ail Your right, because the wii gets core games.

@KoW What are you talking about Tales of Symphonia 2 sold almost the same as the original. Also it will probably outsell most hardcore games on the ps3 in its lifetime.

@Pristine I beleive chocobo dungeon originated on the ps1.

 

it sold close to 180K first week (the one on GC did), and 40K+ second week. Wii has close to 3 times the install base than GC had at the point. Selling LESS means there's potentially no gain of hardcore gamer from GC days.

 

as for most hardcore games on PS3... well, it might not sell over 300K, so let's see. it really depends on what you mean by "most".

 

Which nintendo wasn't trying to do. They were trying to expand the nongamers. Also I think we should wait and see what the game does lifetime before saying it sold bad. So I think your argument is pretty poor to show that core games don't sell on the wii. ANd according to vgchartz TOS2 sold 160k 20 less than the original. Oh and when I say most I mean more than half.

 

 

when a proven JRPG franchise only sells more than half of ALL PS3 games in Japan, it's pretty sad. And we are talking about 4 times the install base?

I believe my argument makes perfect sense. Unless you disagree the game's lifetime number I predicted. As for HARDcore games not selling on Wii... well, the arguments have been stated many times. Tales has shown again, if you want, we will wait for Fatal Frame 4.

Actually no it isn't really. That means that wii games sell on par with ps3 games, or even above in japan. So that makes your argument faulty, because if Wii core games sell bad then so do ps3 games. Your statements only prove that not all of the wii audience is core, and that attach rates are higher on the ps3.  As for Fatal Frame 4, we will have to find some data on the previous games to compare it to. Also look at dragon quest swords. Even if its a spinoff it is a hardcore game, and it outsold every ps3 game that isn't MGS4 in japan. OH and the core userbase is there as you could see nintendo core games selling very well.

 



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Pristine20 on 10 July 2008
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
The Wii will definitely hurt hardcore gamers.

Core gamers however will love the Wii more and more over time.

What is the difference?

 

What both groups have in common is that they play a lot of games, gaming is their favorite pastime. The difference is that they look for different values in games. The hardcore gamer wants graphics, realism and "maturity" in his games, while the core gamer is looking for new gaming experiences and doesn't care too much about how a game looks.

@HappySqurriel: That's already the second hilarious analogy you posted today. Keep doing that.

Then I'm not considering myself a hardcore gamer anymore. I'm a core gamer. Oh and then where do the casuals fit in?

@Ail Your right, because the wii gets core games.

@KoW What are you talking about Tales of Symphonia 2 sold almost the same as the original. Also it will probably outsell most hardcore games on the ps3 in its lifetime.

@Pristine I beleive chocobo dungeon originated on the ps1.

 

it sold close to 180K first week (the one on GC did), and 40K+ second week. Wii has close to 3 times the install base than GC had at the point. Selling LESS means there's potentially no gain of hardcore gamer from GC days.

 

as for most hardcore games on PS3... well, it might not sell over 300K, so let's see. it really depends on what you mean by "most".

 

Which nintendo wasn't trying to do. They were trying to expand the nongamers. Also I think we should wait and see what the game does lifetime before saying it sold bad. So I think your argument is pretty poor to show that core games don't sell on the wii. ANd according to vgchartz TOS2 sold 160k 20 less than the original. Oh and when I say most I mean more than half.

 

 

when a proven JRPG franchise only sells more than half of ALL PS3 games in Japan, it's pretty sad. And we are talking about 4 times the install base?

I believe my argument makes perfect sense. Unless you disagree the game's lifetime number I predicted. As for HARDcore games not selling on Wii... well, the arguments have been stated many times. Tales has shown again, if you want, we will wait for Fatal Frame 4.

Actually no it isn't really. That means that wii games sell on par with ps3 games, or even above in japan. So that makes your argument faulty, because if Wii core games sell bad then so do ps3 games. Your statements only prove that not all of the wii audience is core, and that attach rates are higher on the ps3.  As for Fatal Frame 4, we will have to find some data on the previous games to compare it to. Also look at dragon quest swords. Even if its a spinoff it is a hardcore game, and it outsold every ps3 game that isn't MGS4 in japan. OH and the core userbase is there as you could see nintendo core games selling very well.

 

Do you know what DQ is in Japan? It should've outsold mgs4 four-fold with the wiis "massive" userbase. Too bad the game was another case of shovelware!

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

kingofwale on 10 July 2008
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
The Wii will definitely hurt hardcore gamers.

Core gamers however will love the Wii more and more over time.

What is the difference?

 

What both groups have in common is that they play a lot of games, gaming is their favorite pastime. The difference is that they look for different values in games. The hardcore gamer wants graphics, realism and "maturity" in his games, while the core gamer is looking for new gaming experiences and doesn't care too much about how a game looks.

@HappySqurriel: That's already the second hilarious analogy you posted today. Keep doing that.

Then I'm not considering myself a hardcore gamer anymore. I'm a core gamer. Oh and then where do the casuals fit in?

@Ail Your right, because the wii gets core games.

@KoW What are you talking about Tales of Symphonia 2 sold almost the same as the original. Also it will probably outsell most hardcore games on the ps3 in its lifetime.

@Pristine I beleive chocobo dungeon originated on the ps1.

 

it sold close to 180K first week (the one on GC did), and 40K+ second week. Wii has close to 3 times the install base than GC had at the point. Selling LESS means there's potentially no gain of hardcore gamer from GC days.

 

as for most hardcore games on PS3... well, it might not sell over 300K, so let's see. it really depends on what you mean by "most".

 

Which nintendo wasn't trying to do. They were trying to expand the nongamers. Also I think we should wait and see what the game does lifetime before saying it sold bad. So I think your argument is pretty poor to show that core games don't sell on the wii. ANd according to vgchartz TOS2 sold 160k 20 less than the original. Oh and when I say most I mean more than half.

 

 

when a proven JRPG franchise only sells more than half of ALL PS3 games in Japan, it's pretty sad. And we are talking about 4 times the install base?

I believe my argument makes perfect sense. Unless you disagree the game's lifetime number I predicted. As for HARDcore games not selling on Wii... well, the arguments have been stated many times. Tales has shown again, if you want, we will wait for Fatal Frame 4.

Actually no it isn't really. That means that wii games sell on par with ps3 games, or even above in japan. So that makes your argument faulty, because if Wii core games sell bad then so do ps3 games. Your statements only prove that not all of the wii audience is core, and that attach rates are higher on the ps3. As for Fatal Frame 4, we will have to find some data on the previous games to compare it to. Also look at dragon quest swords. Even if its a spinoff it is a hardcore game, and it outsold every ps3 game that isn't MGS4 in japan. OH and the core userbase is there as you could see nintendo core games selling very well.

 

Have you played DQ Sword???? You call it a 'hardcore' game? What are you going to tell me next? Sonic is hardcore game?

 



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
the_bloodwalker on 10 July 2008

The issue has really nothing to do with "casuals" Vs "hardcore", it has to do with the very notion of what a game should be.

Games should be, above all things, fun.

fun has very little to do with graphics, controls, sound, AI, etc.

fun is all about combining the right amount of the right elements to give new experiences.

Many hardcore have their own definition of fun. The real fear comes from that they don't like to be proven wrong by the industry and the market.



noname2200 on 10 July 2008
Pristine20 said:
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
kingofwale said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:
sc94597 said:
RolStoppable said:

Actually no it isn't really. That means that wii games sell on par with ps3 games, or even above in japan. So that makes your argument faulty, because if Wii core games sell bad then so do ps3 games. Your statements only prove that not all of the wii audience is core, and that attach rates are higher on the ps3. As for Fatal Frame 4, we will have to find some data on the previous games to compare it to. Also look at dragon quest swords. Even if its a spinoff it is a hardcore game, and it outsold every ps3 game that isn't MGS4 in japan. OH and the core userbase is there as you could see nintendo core games selling very well.

 

Do you know what DQ is in Japan? It should've outsold mgs4 four-fold with the wiis "massive" userbase. Too bad the game was another case of shovelware!

 

Because the spinoff it's based on (Kenshin Dragon Quest) far outsold Swords on the PS2. Right?

Right?

 



sc94597 on 10 July 2008

@KoW No I call it a core game. Would casual players get the game? And as for Sonic, it is a Core game as well. Even if it sucks that doesn't make it any less of a core game. Also you didn't acknowledge any of my other points. Oh and using your logic how about we say the tale games on the ps2 failed to sell because they only sold half a mln on a userbase of 20+mln in japan.
@Pristine20 So you wanted the game to sell about 56% of DQXIII on a much much smaller userbase than the ps2 had?