I did not address that specific issue because it is getting late here, and I had to swim to cool off since I have a very low tolerance to heat. :)
I simply would not have time tonight to follow your link, just like I did not have time today to follow Mr. Elite's links from yesturday. I hope to have an occasion to do so. I may leave this thread and try to start an energy efficientcy/alternative energy thread in the not too distant future. Reason being is that neither camp in the controversial global warming debate will ever convince the other of anything. We are pretty much talking amonst ourselves right now since the only people revisiting the thread is those who already have an active steak in it. A new thread will allow me to discuss (including with dissenters) my true interest which is energy effiicientcy and alternative energy. I'll still check in with this thread though.

Regarding the media:
Yes, they will always be biased and guilty of laziness or demagogy(not sure if that is an english word) on both sides. I say this both for the pro-climate change mainstream (liberal) media which tries to scare viewers into tuning in and also for the conservative (talk-radio) anti-global warming media that tries to rally up callers who are afraid that liberals will take away their freedoms and cut into their lifestyle choises (such as owning big SUVs).

I hope that clarifies my omition to your liking. :) I'm off to bed. I'll tune back in tomorrow.

While I said it's a fact like gravity, I never said anybody was stupid. I made an analogy to show how I think discarding the human influence is crazy.

However, mr.elite has called me an idiot several times and claimed global warming was single-handedly invented by Al Gore.

I'm all for debate. I haven't had time for this thread since the first day. I just started summer school yesterday and today. I'll be back! I've been keeping my eye on this thread though. I'm glad everybody agrees we need sustainable resources since the non-renewable energy sources are finite and the amount of babies we can potentially squirt out is infinite. I think we need to go sustainable faster than you guys and think it'll save us money, create more jobs, and be better for our air and water and food.

I love it how average Joe's argue about global warming as if they are informed on the topic. Almost the entire scientific community is united in its opinion that humankind is contributing to global warming and that we need to do something about it. It's strange that despite the backing of the world's greatest minds some people think global warming is merely a theory and that their opinion is somehow valid.

Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't directly referencing your post about gravity (I didn't even remember who said it when I typed that), I was more referencing a mindset of absolute certainty regarding a theory. I've encountered plenty of people who say things like 'It's not even up for debate' 'It's a scientific fact', etc when it's really a theory. Like I said before, I think it's been overhyped into a frenzy of fear, doom & gloom, and panic never leads to good decisions. I just wish people from both sides could temper their rhetoric somewhat and come up with reasonable solutions together.

Wow, you seem really informed. You obviously don't even know what a theory is. There are plenty of brilliant minds on BOTH sides of the debate. You offered absolutely no intelligent addition to this discussion with that post.

Sorry but people can not have informed opinions on such things as climate change. We do not have the thousands of pages of data available to us that the scientific community does and reading the odd article online or watching a story on TV about climate change will never constitute being informed. Regardless, the scientific community seems to be almost unanimous in its belief that humankind is changing the planet's climate and the small amount of remaining opposition to the theory seems to be disappearing. If this were not the case then the UN would not be presented with documents with an increasingly clear message that we are the source of the problem. The data provided against the theory of human driven climate change is typically not peer reviewed making it invalid as scientific research and yet it helps to fuel debate despite being nothing more then conjecture. For your comment that I do not even know what the theory of global warming/climate change is, that was ignorant on your part. My opinion that Internet debate is futile and that the average person's opinion is worthless compared to that of this world's scientists does not mean that I have no understanding of the theory.

Don't you find that odd? That there is no proof given and instad it's a "Take our word for it" arguement? The truth is there are major holes in every published paper on global warming.

Someone can eaisly find all the info they need to prove gravity is real.

Also it's not a conesensus many scientists disagree... or want to disagree that it's man-made yet if they do they'll lose their jobs and funding.

If it was a a definite fact it would be easy to explain away the two questions i posed.

I know exactly why they think global warming is the way it is... I've read the reports. It's a correlation issue. That's it.

Anyone who's taken a research class will tell you correlation vs causation doesn't work in small enviroments... when taking it as a reason for the world... that's retarded.

It's really stupid when you take into account it isn't even a direct 1 to 1 correlation and a loose (pollution and tempeture are both going up) correlation, despite pollution going up exponentially and tempeture going up steadily.

It's bad science perpetrated and continued because the only way to be considered an expert is to accept the bad science.

Nobody is going to go through 6+ years worth of school wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars to disagree and work at McDonalds the rest of their lives.

Ethanol is BAD for the enviroment.

Very bad.

A hybrid would be better using regular gasoline.

I thought the fact that the world is getting hotter was a fact (though a recent decline?) throughout recent history. You cannot really dispute the temperature statistics. The other question is what is causing it, but that is different to whether or not we have global warming

Good point. I guess skepticism is still healthy, even when dealing with a widely supported theory.