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Forums - Gaming - Is DVD-9 enough this generation?

Gballzack said:
Why does everyone act like a multi-disc game is the end of the world? The Playstation thrived with multi-disc titles and it was never a severe issue for the GC.

We also have to take into consideration that the majority of the space taken up on a Blu-Ray disc game is redundant information that wouldn't be needed on a DVD-9.

I believe the only ones are the Blu-ray defenders, in my case, I think that "one" DVD-9 (or two DVD 4.5, this way is cheaper) will be enough for most of the games almost the entire gen.

Big budget games, can take two or three disc, but they are not going to be a lot of them.

The blu-ray have not proved yet to be necessary.



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rocketpig said:
I wasn't trying to start ANOTHER argument about this stupid topic but whoever wrote that spent a lot of time studying actual game size, something that no other poster here can claim.

The numbers actually surprised me how small the games were. It surprised me even more to learn that the PC version of Oblivion only takes up 4.5GB of space, even with it storing multiple textures for different resolutions.

A couple things to remember though,

1) The early 360 games were critisized for looking slightly better than Xbox versions and they already required a 30% jump in disk size.   Didn't they also only do 720p?  I may be mistaken but I thought I read that before.  I can't find anything about Gears of War's size but didn't it come close to requiring a second disk?

2) Those are average sizes.  That hides major variations in game size.  Of course even the PS3 will probably have world championship poker games that are less than half a GB in size.  That article was written in late 2005 it looks like so who knows how relevant it is to today's situation.  All we can tell is even the direct Xbox ports with slightly improved graphics were on average half the size of DVD9 at launch. 

What it looks like is that by the 360's later years the average game will fill up a single DVD9 disk.  I mention the mutli-disk issue not to restart the stupid argument but to say that what's the point?  3 DVD9 disks will be more than enough forthe few games requiring that amount of space.  For most 1 disk will still be enough so it's not important.



Who says you need a huge capacity to make a truly great game, I have The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time for N64 PC ROM and it's only 26MB for the whole game, yet it's quality kicks the arse of xbox games 100-200 times it's size!!



Blue3 said:
Games like FF13 MGS4 Uncharted are already way beyond the storage capacity of dvd-9, but they also happen to be games with huge budgets.

 Sources?  You may be right...I don't doubt FF and MGS are already beyond 9 GB...but sources?  MGS sounds familiar, but I can't remember officials, for Uncharted for example, stating that they were beyond the storage of a DVD-9 at this stage in development...



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just speculations. =))
(made those calculatuions half a year ago, just copy-paste now).

UT - HDD space REQUIRED: 300MB - 1999.

UT2003 - HDD space REQUIRED: 3 GB - 2003.

UT2004 - HDD space REQUIRED: 5.5GB - 2004.
this is without any mods. =)

5.5 / 3 = 1.8

UT - 1999 - 300MB.
2000 - 300*1.8 = 540MB.
2001 - 540*1.8 = 972MB.
2002 - 972*1.8 = 1749MB.
UT2003 - 2003 - 1749*1.8 = 3149MB - 3 GB.
UT2004 - 2004 - 3149*1.8 = 5668MB - 5,5 GB.
2005 - 5668*1.8 = 10203MB.
2006 - 10203*1.8 = 18366MB
UT3 - 2007 - 18366*1.8 = 33059MB - 32GB.

UT3 - 2007 - 8.5GB - ONLY FOR xbox360. =))



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

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In all reality - what are you going to need 9.2gb+ of data for?
Realilistically, the only true reason you'd need massive storage (for right now, at this second) are HDTV-quality 720p o 1080p cutscenes. Outside of using alot of those (ie Blue Dragon), you won't need the massive disks.

Ultimately, at the end of the generation, I believe that if you want to use DVD9, you'll need to cut the cutscenes out that require playing a movie, and rely on 100% ingame animations to get by. For the most part though, games have been doing alot of this on the Xbox 360 that are large-er games (Gears, Oblivion).

Also, I think the whole "omg, the game is 2 disks cuz of the extra features" is idiotic. The games do this becuause a single DVD disk never was able to handle the extra features (Lord of the Rings?). Thats why most X360 CEs have a second disk (PDZ, Quake4, Oblivion). Who cares? The extra content would be able to be on a BR, but does that really make it inferior? Not really.

By 2010, I'd assume devs will start feeling the squeeze, but by then, Microsoft will be telling them "don't worry, HVD for the X720 is on the way, you can fill it up to your hearts content".

Im sure by 2011 the PS3's Blu-Ray will become the base for what the Wii2 will be (most likely), but the other systems will have moved on to even bigger formats.

It's not about space, it's about what's available and viable. DVD was viable because it was already in use for many things. CDs were the same way. DVD is still the only real viable option, because it's not proprietary technology that hasn't been adopted entirely by the optical media market. IMO, it's stupid to pump out non-standard formats. Look at what happened with the non-standard formats in many things: UMD, Gigabit Disks, GC disks. They were out of the ordinary and didn't work. Time has shown, even as far back as built in games of the Atari Era, that standard formats are the best, as they are the cheapest, most widely used, and decrease developer costs.

Now, I'd agree 100% that any console made after 2010 should be of Blu-Ray format, but not 2005-6. There's no sence in putting $100 or more into an optical drive. It didn't work for Sega CD, Phillips CDi, or anyone. Any next-gen propritary format has always relied on whatever was #1 in the consumer marketplace, provided it gave a boost to the system, because it was reliable and cheap. I know I've said the same thing 10 times, but gosh dangit, we had carts for 15 years, CDs never became standard (N64), DVDs were near standard (gigadisk), and have been standard for 10 great years.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

CrazzyMan said:
just speculations. =))
(made those calculatuions half a year ago, just copy-paste now).

UT - HDD space REQUIRED: 300MB - 1999.

UT2003 - HDD space REQUIRED: 3 GB - 2003.

UT2004 - HDD space REQUIRED: 5.5GB - 2004.
this is without any mods. =)

5.5 / 3 = 1.8

UT - 1999 - 300MB.
2000 - 300*1.8 = 540MB.
2001 - 540*1.8 = 972MB.
2002 - 972*1.8 = 1749MB.
UT2003 - 2003 - 1749*1.8 = 3149MB - 3 GB.
UT2004 - 2004 - 3149*1.8 = 5668MB - 5,5 GB.
2005 - 5668*1.8 = 10203MB.
2006 - 10203*1.8 = 18366MB
UT3 - 2007 - 18366*1.8 = 33059MB - 32GB.

UT3 - 2007 - 8.5GB - ONLY FOR xbox360. =))

It figures you'd chime in with some half-assed rationale like that.

Yes, let's ignore the advancements in compression entirely. In case you didn't notice, Gears fits on one DVD-9 but one year later, UT is supposed to be 3 1/2 times its size?

Be realistic. Games don't double in size every year. If that was true, even Blu-Ray would be insufficient to hold a game like World of Warcraft 2 if it was to release in 2009.




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Gballzack said:
Why does everyone act like a multi-disc game is the end of the world? The Playstation thrived with multi-disc titles and it was never a severe issue for the GC.

We also have to take into consideration that the majority of the space taken up on a Blu-Ray disc game is redundant information that wouldn't be needed on a DVD-9.

QFT.  That's exactly what I was going to say.  We have yet to see a game that actually required the Blu-Ray for anything but data duplication to reduce what WOULD be horrible load times because of disc read speed (Oblivion anyone?).  So basically Blu-Ray's space is currently being used to... fix it's own shortcomming lol.  DVD-9 is fine, worst that can happen is you need 2 or 3 discs.



well, i haven`t read anything, about having problems with DVD space on UT3 for x360. =)
so, probably game will easily fit into 8.5GB.
those 2 maps on Geow took only 100MB. =)) Just don`t know, will be UT3 levels be as "big" as those 2 maps. =)

however, i read complains about DVD space from GTA4 developers and Mass effects. :)



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

BenKenobi88 said:
Blue3 said:
Games like FF13 MGS4 Uncharted are already way beyond the storage capacity of dvd-9, but they also happen to be games with huge budgets.

Sources? You may be right...I don't doubt FF and MGS are already beyond 9 GB...but sources? MGS sounds familiar, but I can't remember officials, for Uncharted for example, stating that they were beyond the storage of a DVD-9 at this stage in development...


 Sony gamers day video with naughty dog, SE some interview on psu.