Ha, I'll give you that windbane but how many people have to make the terrible decision of whether to go with the PS3 or 360 version of a game?

Yeah, windbane has a point. It seems people here always talk about some magic $200 to $300 price difference because of Blu-Ray when the difference between the Elite and the PS3 is actually only $120. The PS3 has built-in wifi, memory card readers and free online (and the Blu-Ray drive, of course) while the 360 has 120GB hard drive (proprietary) instead of 60GB (2.5" SATA). If you ask me, the 60GB difference in hard drives is worth $30 (@ $0.50/GB for 2.5") while the wifi and no-subscription fee online is worth more than that, so the cost of the Blu-Ray is actually $100 or less for consumers.  I'd say the cell chip is worth more too, and the emotion engine chip is worth $50 versus just software emulation (in 360 and PAL PS3's).

blu ray is enough in this generation and dvd was enough in the past generation.

Why always say that the 200$ are for the Blu Ray Drive... the PS3 cost more than 600$ so you can imagine you dont pay for the blu ray but for the quality/durability, free online, HDMI 1.3, bluetooth, wi-fi, Card Reader, Internal AC Power, silence of the system, linux, 6axis with battery, 10 years of PS1/PS2 games compatible, exclusiv games from the biggest studios own by Sony and others, advanced multimedia features, 2,5" HDD, PSP functions.

The PS3 at 400$ + 4 years of online at 50$ cost 600$... and in france we pay 60€ for xbox-live so its 240$ against a 600€ PS3... and xbox 360 owner are not far from their 180€ for xbox-live in november 2007.

For me the blu ray is a great choice for streaming.. today textures and 3D are streamed in game... the entire island in Drake's fortune is streamed and accessible like Lair.... I dream of games with real long videos on TV shops when you walk in entire 3D city... I want 1080p videos with content in better quality than FF7 advent Children, I want audio for every character in the game in RPG, streamed video background, variety of textures and massive worlds to explore, 7.1 sounds, etc... I want extra contents, demos, behind the scenes, movie pack, mini games, old games... ( I want a FF7 remake + FF7 advent children in it xD )... It's the next generation... it's made to make full use of HD-TV. If I want to stay behind I keep a PS2 or take a Wii... we dont have a new system every year... the last time it was in 2000... To touch the mass market you need a long life for a system.. or a market like Nintendo.
I'm sure Sony is clever, they know wath to do with the PS3/PSP and online content for the futur... they know they need great games that make the difference.. we'll see at the end of 2008, I dont worry for them.

And for Blu Ray Video against HD-DVD I think in Europe Blu Ray wins, a lot more space in shops etc.. in japan it's already 98% Blu Ray and in the USA its 69% for blu ray in video sales since 1st january 2007. And for Blu Ray multimedia/games with the PS3 it's not far from 100% worldwide I think, for laptop with Apple and VAIO, toshiba is lost...for desktop I dont know... but there's no HD-DVD burner I think... I dont see a great futur for the HD-DVD... they just have the price for them and with the mass market of PS3 price will go down very fast for blu ray.

You need time and influence to put a new format I dont think HVD etc have a futur oustide backup in servers... for the mass market it's blu ray and online distribution in the next 10 years.

Sorry for my english :/

Why are Sony fans so desperate to defend Blu-Ray? Just an honest question.

Sorry ? Really I dont understand Gballzack... Maybe you're not into technology to understand what it can bring for hd-tv owners and for games in general :/

Just try to accept that some people want quality...a silent disc drive with great space that work with an HDD in every PS3 is one of the things that make the PS3 worth owning. Maybe you cant see the use "now".. or dont want to pay extra cash "now"... but with time and price drop of the PS3 and HD-TV you will realise that it was a very great offer who just needed time for games to come and people to stop bashing Sony for everything.
The PS3 is just 2 months old in Europe.. it's funny to see so much negativity around something new that has all the chance to be the standard for high def content very soon.

Devil's advocate.

Don't you think supporting Sony dominance and control over a content delivery system is a bad idea? Sony has already said they won't approve pressing of pornographic content onto BD. What happens if Sony decides to not approve a particular film genre that you enjoy? What if Sony were de facto *given* the keys to next gen content delivery and therefore decided that movies should just stay at the $34.95 price point and don't ever need to drop?

Wasn't Sony's CD rootkit fiasco a big enough wake-up call?

This is a dangerous road we're going down. I guess what the Sony "haters" have a problem with is not supporting the PlayStation 3, but rather blindly defending its role as a trojan horse to put BD in homes.

I mean, what's in it for you that you defend Blu-Ray over HD-DVD?

It's a simple question, I think. Which is easier to believe?

a) Sony has the best interests of hardcore gamers and A/V-philes at heart.
b) Sony wants to make lots and lots of money, and *owning* the player, the media, and the studios in a grab to fix what you can buy and how much you pay for it is the best way to do that. 

Huh, well if that's where you stand I guess there's no changing it, personally I don't see a new disc format as having any place in the consumer market at this point and time. Casual consumers don't care about it, only hardcore consumers and tech heads do. It's the same recipe for disaster as the PS3 I'm afraid. I agree with Dryden, you have to be pretty naive to think Blu-Ray in anyway will be implemented to anyone's benefit other than Sony or the 9 other companies who developed it with them. Blu-Ray and the PS3 may be new, but Sony's ambitions are not... But that's just my opinion on the matter.

 Seriously, Sony isn't the only company involved in Blu-Ray.  Of course Sony will make money off Blu-Ray, but anybody who develops any storage format will make money off of it.  HD-DVD will be dated much quicker than Blu-Ray, end of story.  It is also significantly more scratch resistance because of the Durabis spray on-lining.  Go look for video on You-Tube of people taking STEEL WOOL to their blu-rays and then popping them in the PS3 and having them work just fine with no hesitation from the player.

 I could understand a lot of people's problems if Blu-Ray were an inherently bad format or something, but even the price for laser diodes which was around $100 several months ago has already dropped to $8.  Sony will pass on some of the savings because they have to this generation sooner than later.  The new standalone player is already $500, way quicker than DVD dropped.

 Sony did actually break away and form their own format because they didn't want to support a super compressed red laser developed by the DVD forum that could only do 720p.  So in that sense, they actually did have the best interests of the consumer in mind by not getting them stuck on a transitional storage medium that would be dated sooner rather than later.

 Porn will be on Blu-Ray, and from reports I have heard is already on Blu-Ray.  There are several independent Blu-Ray disc manufacturers out there besides Sony, so the porn thing is a non-factor.  

 I can think of several games last generation that used more than one disc, mostly RPG's, but there were some action games, like God of War 2, that almost needed it.  They had to cut "HD mode" from the Euro version because of the seperate audio tracks.  

 Does anyone know how big Gears of War actually was?
 

1- Sony can press on blu ray what ever they want it's their right... Porno can be on blu ray and it's already there... you have fanboy sources... Sony dont make all the blu ray discs, everyone can, and I m sure Sony dont make most of the blu ray discs available... the fact that they dont want to make porno movies really dont mean a thing in terms of liberty... it's an open format for content. Everyone can make Blu Ray disc for content company if they pay to own the rights to make disc to the association.
The Porno story is one of the best propaganda I'v seen against Sony and Blu Ray

2- For the root kits and content distribution, yes it's not a good thing but... with Microsoft in the competition it's the same... and I really prefer Sony who takes risks, are creativ and are use to create content... Windows sells because it's on you PC before you buy it in your supermarket, you dont have games on linux and mac because very early Microsoft knew that Direct X and dev dependance will make prisoner the Card manufacturer and Gamers... And for Vista Im sure you heard about Direct X 10, Halo 2, Live Anywhere $$ ( anywhere... scary no ? ). Microsoft try to be the last company between product and customer for everything...Izune,msn, phones, 360, PC, pda... there is much more proprietary mecanism and use of dependance on Microsoft politics than Sony... There's a lot to say about dev tools etc... but I dont have the english to tell it correctly... But Sony is far more open with the PS3 than MS for everything.. Sony are in a lot of business but they dont take the market like Microsoft. Sony make electronics and content for digital entertainement.. they are far more on their market than MS with the 360 and everything behind... Microsoft dont loose Billions since the begining without great ambitions behind... Sega was already dead with the situation of Microsoft in the videogames... That's not real fair competition.
There's no real good guy in this situation between MS and Sony, they are here for money Im affraid.. but we all knew it, no ? Ms is already king of the PC videogame market... that's enough and dangerous for me even if Sony is not perfect ( Im a PC gamer ).

We are far from the Blu Ray topic... but just say: Blu Ray is bad because it's $ony or "now" just "now" I dont realise what it can give to the experience on PS3...It's very limited. I'm sure Pixar movies on BD and RPG games will show you one day an idea of what to expect in the next 5+ years.