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Forums - Sony - My altered view of MGS4 now that I've beaten it.

lolita on 19 June 2008

Am I the only one to think the Gekkos in the prologue cutscenes sound like cows? O_o

Okay sorry that was off topic. XD

Well many people enjoy cutscenes... It's just a matter of tastes really. The story looks interesting.



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shio on 19 June 2008
DTG said:
shio said:

I'm tired of this argument, so I'll just say:

If you want to see a game that CRUSHES Metal Gear Solid in story, storytelling, interactivity, complexity, depth and writing, go play Planescape: Torment (which uses almost no cutscenes).

 

Planescape was good but not amazing. MGS games have far more in depth and lengthy philosophical exposition than Torment did. The 8 circles of Zerthimon and ending dialogue were thought provoking but besides that there wasn't enough discussion on the subjects the game wished to adress.

We've had this argument before, and if you can't see the thematics and simbology embedded in the gameplay of Planescape: Torment, then I'm afraid you'll never see the 'light'.

 



http://i48.tinypic.com/120qaon.jpg
sieanr on 19 June 2008
shio said:
DTG said:
shio said:

I'm tired of this argument, so I'll just say:

If you want to see a game that CRUSHES Metal Gear Solid in story, storytelling, interactivity, complexity, depth and writing, go play Planescape: Torment (which uses almost no cutscenes).

 

Planescape was good but not amazing. MGS games have far more in depth and lengthy philosophical exposition than Torment did. The 8 circles of Zerthimon and ending dialogue were thought provoking but besides that there wasn't enough discussion on the subjects the game wished to adress.

We've had this argument before, and if you can't see the thematics and simbology embedded in the gameplay of Planescape: Torment, then I'm afraid you'll never see the 'light'.

This guy thinks MGS is deeper than any movie or book. I'm pretty sure that he is far beyond salvation.

 



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ale666 on 19 June 2008

why don't they just turn it into a damn movie and be done with it ?..



bobobologna on 19 June 2008
alpha_dk said:
Shameless said:

MGS is the game equivalent of Japanese cartoons. Poor clichéd storyline with some semblance of morality and a huge rabid fanbase that watch everything to do with the subject.

Some of you people suprise me, though. From reading your posts I feel like I've fallen into one of those pretentious art forums and it's suprising that you enjoy this entertainment medium at all. Maybe you should go and read some Nietzche instead of complaining about a game that is so obviously below you.

I don't think games are below me. Halflife (and 2), for example, had an *excellent* story... you were given more than enough information by *doing* things to get excellent characterizations, a superb plot, as well as a decent (but not great) dialog on the limits of humanity through the use of background audio clips, television clips, and stuff like that; you don't need a character to flat out say,

"Are the combine and those ruled by them any more human than the zombies and headcrabs they oppose? Once human progression is given to the care of others to maintain, can we really be called human any more? If we deny ourselves the right of self-determination of our future, aren't we just the same as the Zombies and Headcrabs we profess to hate?"

All of that information is expressed extremely well in HL2, and other games do it as well or better than HL2. None of the ones I am thinking of resort to heavy-handed dialog to portray these themes.

Art, Philosophy and Video Games can go hand-in-hand; I don't believe that there is anything intrinsically better about heavy-handed cut-scene-ridden games than a game that forces you to expand the themes for yourself; which, as I understand DTG's argument is what he's saying.

If I am wrong about his argument, than I apologize; but since he hasn't responded, I haven't gotten clarification on his beliefs.

 

Holy shit, do you really think Valve made HL2 to be interpreted like that? Do you think that while drawing up the story for the game, the thought process went any further than "Hey guys, I came up with a cool idea for the Combine and a dystopian future." I mean, it's great if Valve did it on purpose (links of interviews?), but I think a lot of you are trying to read more into games than the game developers themselves intended. All in the interest of having some pseudo-intellectual conversation.  On a gaming website no less.  Well, game sales website.



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Skeeuk on 19 June 2008

? what this thread still going?



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alpha_dk on 19 June 2008
bobobologna said:
alpha_dk said:
Shameless said:

MGS is the game equivalent of Japanese cartoons. Poor clichéd storyline with some semblance of morality and a huge rabid fanbase that watch everything to do with the subject.

Some of you people suprise me, though. From reading your posts I feel like I've fallen into one of those pretentious art forums and it's suprising that you enjoy this entertainment medium at all. Maybe you should go and read some Nietzche instead of complaining about a game that is so obviously below you.

I don't think games are below me. Halflife (and 2), for example, had an *excellent* story... you were given more than enough information by *doing* things to get excellent characterizations, a superb plot, as well as a decent (but not great) dialog on the limits of humanity through the use of background audio clips, television clips, and stuff like that; you don't need a character to flat out say,

"Are the combine and those ruled by them any more human than the zombies and headcrabs they oppose? Once human progression is given to the care of others to maintain, can we really be called human any more? If we deny ourselves the right of self-determination of our future, aren't we just the same as the Zombies and Headcrabs we profess to hate?"

All of that information is expressed extremely well in HL2, and other games do it as well or better than HL2. None of the ones I am thinking of resort to heavy-handed dialog to portray these themes.

Art, Philosophy and Video Games can go hand-in-hand; I don't believe that there is anything intrinsically better about heavy-handed cut-scene-ridden games than a game that forces you to expand the themes for yourself; which, as I understand DTG's argument is what he's saying.

If I am wrong about his argument, than I apologize; but since he hasn't responded, I haven't gotten clarification on his beliefs.

 

Holy shit, do you really think Valve made HL2 to be interpreted like that? Do you think that while drawing up the story for the game, the thought process went any further than "Hey guys, I came up with a cool idea for the Combine and a dystopian future." I mean, it's great if Valve did it on purpose (links of interviews?), but I think a lot of you are trying to read more into games than the game developers themselves intended. All in the interest of having some pseudo-intellectual conversation.  On a gaming website no less.  Well, game sales website.

 

What do you think the Stalkers are supposed to represent then?



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bobobologna on 19 June 2008
alpha_dk said:
bobobologna said:
alpha_dk said:
Shameless said:

MGS is the game equivalent of Japanese cartoons. Poor clichéd storyline with some semblance of morality and a huge rabid fanbase that watch everything to do with the subject.

Some of you people suprise me, though. From reading your posts I feel like I've fallen into one of those pretentious art forums and it's suprising that you enjoy this entertainment medium at all. Maybe you should go and read some Nietzche instead of complaining about a game that is so obviously below you.

I don't think games are below me. Halflife (and 2), for example, had an *excellent* story... you were given more than enough information by *doing* things to get excellent characterizations, a superb plot, as well as a decent (but not great) dialog on the limits of humanity through the use of background audio clips, television clips, and stuff like that; you don't need a character to flat out say,

"Are the combine and those ruled by them any more human than the zombies and headcrabs they oppose? Once human progression is given to the care of others to maintain, can we really be called human any more? If we deny ourselves the right of self-determination of our future, aren't we just the same as the Zombies and Headcrabs we profess to hate?"

All of that information is expressed extremely well in HL2, and other games do it as well or better than HL2. None of the ones I am thinking of resort to heavy-handed dialog to portray these themes.

Art, Philosophy and Video Games can go hand-in-hand; I don't believe that there is anything intrinsically better about heavy-handed cut-scene-ridden games than a game that forces you to expand the themes for yourself; which, as I understand DTG's argument is what he's saying.

If I am wrong about his argument, than I apologize; but since he hasn't responded, I haven't gotten clarification on his beliefs.

 

Holy shit, do you really think Valve made HL2 to be interpreted like that? Do you think that while drawing up the story for the game, the thought process went any further than "Hey guys, I came up with a cool idea for the Combine and a dystopian future." I mean, it's great if Valve did it on purpose (links of interviews?), but I think a lot of you are trying to read more into games than the game developers themselves intended. All in the interest of having some pseudo-intellectual conversation. On a gaming website no less. Well, game sales website.

 

What do you think the Stalkers are supposed to represent then?

 


Represent?  Nothing.  Maybe you see something there, but unless you can show me an interview where ANYONE from the HL2 development team talks about what message they were trying to get across, I'm going to say that everyone is picking at air.  It's like those people who think they see Jesus' face on a piece of toast.  Well, okay, it's not that bad, but it's still annoying to see people extol the philosophical meaning behind plain crap like most video games.



Onimusha12 on 19 June 2008
rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

Amen

DTG on 20 June 2008
rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

 

Why must every aspect of a mans work embrace the "strength" of a medium? Do many books not contain pictures in them? Do many movies not contain written references in them? Wy should a game limit itself to a particular style when it can blend several together - namely movies and games? The gameplay is still there however the story is presented as a movie blending two mediums in a stroke of a genius, something most artists wish to achieve.