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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Analysts Warn of "struggle" For xbox.

noname2200 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
FishyJoe said:

Analysts...


You just love the fact that the bars go down...


Holy crap, I didn't even catch that.

On topic, I've decided to change careers and become an analyst. I'd basically be doing what most forum posters do, but I'd be getting paid for my ramblings. How did I not see this sooner?


 Im no analys, but i do forecasting in my line of work and i dont know how the hell the number of units sold will go down

 And actually releasing this in public gimme whatever it is that they smoke man ! 



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DFC has been spouting that line about software sales for at least the last six months. So it is obvious they believe it ... even though the attach rate on the Wii currently appears to be higher.

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I would like to ask those who think PS3 is just catered to Hardcore market like 360, how you arrived at that and how many people actually think that? I mean the analysts who study make these claims and get paid by these companies would have the resources to study:
-gamer behaviour
-buying patterns
-gamer perceptions
-future predictions (forecasting)
Whereas most people here would be able to see buying patterns and guess gamer bahaviour based on what they do themselves and their peers as well as perceptions. Even if you were to talk to 1000 people, which by most people's standard is a high amount of people to talk to about any one topic. But the reality is, is that wouldn't even cover 0.001% of the 120 million people who bought the PS2 let alone people who bought let alone the people who bought xbox or Gc if you wanted to compare data. And if your sample is less than 0.001% of the gaming population how can you accurately predict, behaviour and perceptions to get anywhere close to forecasting what is going to happen in the future?

By the way these guys get paid craploads of money to make accurate predictions so that companies like MS/Sony/Nintendo can properly plan their next move.

To those who claim PS3 is just as hardcore as 360, I would say look at the PS2 catalog and compare that to the Xbox catalog and you will notice something. And that something is PS2 has something for everyone which includes hardcore and casual gamers and for people who don't normally play games. Whereas Xbox library didn't cater to all those audiences as much. And just by looking at PS3 vs 360 catalog I would say its too early in the piece to judge too soon. But the perceptions from the previous consoles can carry over and the analysts most likely have data which confirm this.



reask said:
yeah i read that article myself and was actually wondering why most analysts predict a bad third for 360.

the thing is i got the 360 having owned a ps2 i wasnt loyal to any company the 360 was there and i had a bit of disposable income.

if the ps3 had been out at the time of my purchase i would have got that without doubt.

having said that i am now very happy with my 360 and feel no need to get any other console and i sometimes wonder how many people have done the same as me

my point been this hardcore image seems a bit misplaced sometimes imo.
i suppose time will tell and these analysts will either be right or they will just change their minds.

also i think if ms pulled out of the gaming market it would be bad for all gamers as there would be less competition.

 

I understand where you are coming from but for me, the PS1 was my first true console, then the PS2. I had to have a way to keep playing my old games so despite the fact that I admired the 360. I had to exercise patience for the PS3. I had an original Xbox just for Ninja Gaiden but it ended up on PS3 so I won't make that mistake twice. NG2 doesn't seem that great anyway

"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

@Graph

err so from 2010 to 2011 Wii had negative sales?



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jkl2207 said:
I would like to ask those who think PS3 is just catered to Hardcore market like 360, how you arrived at that and how many people actually think that? I mean the analysts who study make these claims and get paid by these companies would have the resources to study:
-gamer behaviour
-buying patterns
-gamer perceptions
-future predictions (forecasting)
Whereas most people here would be able to see buying patterns and guess gamer bahaviour based on what they do themselves and their peers as well as perceptions. Even if you were to talk to 1000 people, which by most people's standard is a high amount of people to talk to about any one topic. But the reality is, is that wouldn't even cover 0.001% of the 120 million people who bought the PS2 let alone people who bought let alone the people who bought xbox or Gc if you wanted to compare data. And if your sample is less than 0.001% of the gaming population how can you accurately predict, behaviour and perceptions to get anywhere close to forecasting what is going to happen in the future?

By the way these guys get paid craploads of money to make accurate predictions so that companies like MS/Sony/Nintendo can properly plan their next move.

To those who claim PS3 is just as hardcore as 360, I would say look at the PS2 catalog and compare that to the Xbox catalog and you will notice something. And that something is PS2 has something for everyone which includes hardcore and casual gamers and for people who don't normally play games. Whereas Xbox library didn't cater to all those audiences as much. And just by looking at PS3 vs 360 catalog I would say its too early in the piece to judge too soon. But the perceptions from the previous consoles can carry over and the analysts most likely have data which confirm this.

 I think you overestimate those analysts. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft those not use those kind of analysts as they do their own researchs. They may get paid craploads of money but they certainly do not make accurate predictions. Most of the analysts had predicted the Gamecube numbers for the Wii and look where we are now.

Compare the PS2 catalog to that of PS3 and you'll notice something, there isn't something for everyone yet. The problem is that PS3 is extremely expensive for casual gamers and they are not buying it right now. Those who buy the PS3 are HD movies fan, Hardcore Sony fans and people that want an HD console but not the Xbox. That's why we think PS3 is as hardcore than Xbox360. 



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Resident_Hazard said:
Ridiculous article. Interesting, though somewhat ridiculous. For one, if the Xbox360 will "fail" in Europe because it's not casual enough, then why do they think the PS3 will succeed? It's pretty much the same thing with a Blu-Ray player.

And the PS3 will have a hard time out performing the X360 or Wii in terms of software for three reasons: A) Many PS3 owners bought it more as a high-def movie player than a game machine, so they don't buy as much software as they do Blu-Ray movies; B) All (give or take a couple) multiplatform games sell better on the X360 than the PS3; and C) It's just as much a "hardcore" anti-casual machine as the Xbox360 is. And it still costs more.


Anyone who still thinks the Wii is a fad needs to have their head examined.

I think this is the case because almost all good multiplat (PS360) games  are FPS with a few casual (which people just tend to buy for whichever console they have) but I couldn't imagine my favorite genre (the JRPG) selling more on 360 than PS3. Do you thing Lost Odyssey won't have reached 1 million by now on PS3 even with a smaller install base? Also, its not possible for the PS3 to sell more FPSs than 360 so all consoles have pros and cons



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Pristine20 said:
reask said:
yeah i read that article myself and was actually wondering why most analysts predict a bad third for 360.

the thing is i got the 360 having owned a ps2 i wasnt loyal to any company the 360 was there and i had a bit of disposable income.

if the ps3 had been out at the time of my purchase i would have got that without doubt.

having said that i am now very happy with my 360 and feel no need to get any other console and i sometimes wonder how many people have done the same as me

my point been this hardcore image seems a bit misplaced sometimes imo.
i suppose time will tell and these analysts will either be right or they will just change their minds.

also i think if ms pulled out of the gaming market it would be bad for all gamers as there would be less competition.

 

I understand where you are coming from but for me, the PS1 was my first true console, then the PS2. I had to have a way to keep playing my old games so despite the fact that I admired the 360. I had to exercise patience for the PS3. I had an original Xbox just for Ninja Gaiden but it ended up on PS3 so I won't make that mistake twice. NG2 doesn't seem that great anyway

still this time it just feels different i remember summer 06 going in to buy my ps2 games and looking at the games on the display 360 and thinking this is good.

now you walk into any game store and the display of 360 games is double that of ps3 whereas last gen it was the opposite.

i do take on board the ps name and what it stands for it is a bit like the vacum cleaner over here where we all say hoover as it was the first vacum cleaner; if you know what i mean.

ms have there work cut out but lets face it dominating the market is second nature to them and i dont see them going down without a fight. only time will tell i suppose. 



 

 

 

 

Dno said:

Analysts warn of "struggle" for Xbox

Senior industry analysts have voiced concerns over the future of Microsoft's Xbox business, labeling the US firm's attempts to market 360 to casual audiences "disastrous", and predicting that the console will "start to struggle in the market" over the coming year.

Speaking during a panel session at last month's Nordic Game 2008 conference in Malmo, Sweden, analysts covering the UK, Europe and North America were called upon to assess the current state of the global games market, and predict key trends for the next 12-18 months. And for Microsoft, the picture in their crystal ball was anything but rosy.

"When you look at an installed base basis, the Xbox 360's going to come in third place when all's said and done," said DFC Intelligence analyst David Cole. "The concern I would have with a company like Microsoft is, one of these days they're going to have to make a profit on this business otherwise why are they in it?"

Nick Parker, MD of Parker Consulting and an analyst for Screen Digest, argued that 360's failure to succeed in key continental Europe territories pointed to a fundamental image problem. "The trouble with Xbox 360 is it hasn't managed to shake off this urban, irreverent adult male feel; so it hasn't gained traction in the more casual gaming markets of mainland Europe such as France, Spain and Italy, where it's stalled," he said. "And there are already rumours of Xbox 360 being delisted from certain retailers."

Parker, a former VP of strategic planning at Sony Europe, maintained that Microsoft had failed to learn from the mistakes of its first console: "I think they started off badly with the Xbox itself: blood and breasts. This alienated it immediately to a lot of consumers around Europe, and they never got over that. The brand image never went away. And although Halo 3 is a big game, it just emphasises again what the Xbox is all about.

"If you go talk to people in Seville, in Rome, they're not interested in that. They're much more casual gamers, they don't want to have such competitive games."

Cole argued that, despite Microsoft's perceived failure to appeal beyond its core audience, it was still possible for publishers to do strong business in 360's bread-and-butter areas. "If you're doing a first-person shooter title, you're clearly going to want to be on Xbox 360, and that's for years to come," he offered. "[But] their efforts at marketing outside of the first-person shooter crowd have been disastrous." In March, Microsoft hired former Nintendo Europe boss David Gosen to spearhead its drive for casual gamers on the continent.

While 360 remains particularly strong in its home US market and the UK, bitter rival Sony's PlayStation 3 has overtaken it on installed base in other territories, despite launching over a year later. Sony Europe boss David Reeves claimed last month that the console had already surpassed 360's sales across Europe.

Globally, Xbox 360 has sold through over 19 million units since it launched in November 2005. Sony revealed last month that it has sold 12.85 million PlayStation 3s since November 2006, with worldwide Wii hardware sales standing at 24.4 million units as of April 2008.

Xbox 360 last month hit the 10 million milestone in the US, prompting Xbox boss Don Mattrick to proclaim: "History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle." However, the panel accused Mattrick of "clutching at straws".

"[Microsoft] get very defensive because they realise the US is their last stronghold now as their sales go into decline across the rest of the world," said Parker. "So they're a little bit desperate and they're clutching at straws now to cling on to what they've got in the market which is primarily the US." Parker also pointed to the "tremendous brand loyalty to PlayStation" amongst its consumer base, causing many to hold off from entering the new generation until the release of their favourite brands, rather than buying an Xbox.

Asked whether there was any chance Microsoft might reconsider its place in the console business, Cole said: "I think there's always that risk. They will have to assess their position after this round, and clearly they were very committed to saying they were going to stick with this business through another console system. They haven't really talked much beyond that and I know that really at some point they are going to have to figure out how they're going to make money out of this business."

He added that DFC Intelligence expected to "see the Xbox 360 start to struggle in the market" over the next 12 months, but added that Sony faced a similar challenge into turning its PlayStation 3 business into profit.

Despite its huge success, the panel also sounded a note of caution over the long-term prospects of the Wii, specifically in relation to its portfolio and the gaming habits of its casual audience. "There's a risk that they [casual users] could actually put the Wii in the wardrobe if there isn't a steady stream of games that please them," argued Swedish games industry analyst Martin Lindell.

"You've got to remember there's a difference between buying and playing - the fact that you get your grandma to play the game doesn't mean she's going out to buy it," added Parker. "I'm still in that kind of faddish feeling about the Wii."

For Cole, Nintendo's historical issues with third-party support poses a risk: "It's a huge issue that Nintendo dominates the platforms they own, as that's how they make all their money," he said. "We see the Wii having a higher installed base but the PS3 generating, by about 2010-11, more revenue in terms of software."

Microsoft did have one champion at the session, however. When the panel began criticising the multi-SKU strategies of Microsoft and Sony, with specific reference to the 360 Elite, a hitherto unusually silent Epic Games boss Mark Rein called out: "Are you guys crazy?", claiming that Elite had been the only profitable SKU for Microsoft. Parker responded by stating that the real issue was consumer confusion.


That statement was embarassing at the time, but now, considering the wii has overtaken the 360 in the US and leads worldwide, and the fact that in a years time the 360 will be bottom of the pile WW when the PS3 overtakes it....id say Mr Mattrick has a lot of egg on his face right about now



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To all of you who cannot understand how install bases can go down should look up ensemble forecasting. Hopefully this will fuel a degree of introspection. Perhaps you might, if for but a moment, consider the possibility that someone who does this for a living just slightly more informed than you about his life's work. Every single post I have read has either outright stated or not so subtly implied the analysts must all be completely incompetent. Nobody seems to have pointed out that while fishyjoe's graph's numbers are off, the ordering of consoles has so far been correct. The anti-intellectualism and evolving group-think on this site is likely worthy of a sociology phd thesis.