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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii Game Selection = Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose Situation

steven787 said:
Imperial said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Imperial said:
The Wii is the kind of thing you go to some one elses house to play for 1/2 an hour , you gotta come home to the PS3/360.

Well unless your a girl/elderly/< 10 years old

Now this is trolling. Which mods are online right now?

Well forgive me for stating my opinion.

 


There is a difference between opinion (a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter[neutral]) and conjecture (inference from defective or presumptive evidence [negative, used with abhorrence]).

 


 I'm fully aware of that but regardless , that is my opinion.



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Looks like a job for High Voltage!

Seriously, they've gotten a lot of props from me for taking the time to actually try with the Wii. I expect that after the Conduit Engine (or whatever they call it) becomes commercially available to other developers, quality of Wii games will explode. We'll see tons of quality realistic-looking first- and third-person games come out of the woodwork. I'm eager to see what happens.

Only problem is that the publisher that helps fund the rest of High Voltage's work may try controlling what happens with that engine, in which case we'd better hope it's a quality publisher.



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Picko said:
bardicverse said:
picko said: " The other reason why the Wii does not receive quality third party software is incentives. There is little incentive for developers to make quality software on the Wii. Whilst it would be difficult to get numbers on this I would imagine that Wii gamers are inelastic to game budget (with budget as a proxy for quality), that is you can make cheap games without losing a significant amount of sales and you don't gain a significant amount of sales by increasing budget. Therefore why spend more on a game?"

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What an odd point of view, which very much is the polar opposite of what is actually happening. Much of the crowd buying Wii's are not parents in low income families, but the upper echelon who see it as the "trendy" system, the system that people are impressed they have, the ever elusive Wii. You won't see Muffy and Buffy having company over and after discussing their stock shares, they say "oh, we just got a PS3/XB360. Care to try it?" but you will see these people egging their company to try a game of bowling, etc. Of course, these people likely aren't going out to buy a Resident Evil game, unless they have gamer roots.

Yet, back on your statement. Wii development costs a LOT less to make a AAA title than it does for the HD systems, which means a quicker profit point. Combine that with the dominating marketshare for the Wii, and you have a system that you can put a big game on and turn a profit with better success. Publishers like buffers, and the buffer is the market share numbers. To drive the point home the Wii has double the market share of the PS3. This means that even if every PS3 owner buys a copy of a game, it only equates to half of the Wii owners.

So in the end, it is less profitable to make a AAA game for the HD consoles. The other issue is competition. Since the HD consoles focus heavily on graphics, there is a higher potential for the gameplay to suffer. THis isn't always true, but some games go so far out of their way to bring a good visual experience, they forget they're making a game. So unless that HD system game is top notch and is well-received, it might get ignored over a better game. On the Wii, as long as the controls are done well and gameplay well done, it's easier to get a game noticed (with proper advertising of course).

So the incentive to develop AAA games on the Wii is high, because the game can shine through the lackluster games easily.


You missed in the entire point of my post. None of your post addresses it.

The crux of my argument was this: Wii owners appear be demand inelastic (less responsive) to changes in the quality of a game. That is you can decrease quality without losing a significant amount of copies sold. Therefore it is profitable to decrease quality to some point where the costs equal the benefits of doing so. This position appears to be lower than it is for 360 and PS3 owners, therefore on average you can expect lower quality games. More to the point developers appear to know this.

That analysis far better fits the facts of what Ubisoft and other developers are doing. In fact it fits the facts rather perfectly, which isn't all that surprising given that it's a rational reaction to the incentives of the marketplace. To believe otherwise, you have sit there and try to justify why companies would deliberately forego profitable opportunities and whilst some companies are undoubtedly poorly run the Wii's poor third party situation is practically universal so something other than stupidity is taking place and there is a strong possibility that the previous paragraph explains what it is.


I'd argue, but I notice you didn't really clarify what you meant by decreasing quality. You can't mean making the game worse. That is slapping subjective opinion on objective sales. Do you mean budget and effort? That is likely what you meant, but it's still false.

Table Tennis is a good examples. The budget and effort was severly reduced, and the game sold about 1/7 of the 360 version. That is a significant amount of copies sold being lost.

Or contrast with the million sellers, the actual hits. The closest that even comes close to shovelware is Wii Play or Carnival Games. Two games out of 25. The next closest is Lego Star Wars, but only because it's basically two completed games. Yet those games themselves weren't shovelware.

So your main point seems to be that Ubisoft can and should do this because shovelware sells on the Wii, yet when I look at sales charts I don't see that. I see games with effort selling more, even if those games don't please reviewers.

So I think your argument is faulty, because it's based on a false premise. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

thetonestarr said:
Looks like a job for High Voltage!

Seriously, they've gotten a lot of props from me for taking the time to actually try with the Wii. I expect that after the Conduit Engine (or whatever they call it) becomes commercially available to other developers, quality of Wii games will explode. We'll see tons of quality realistic-looking first- and third-person games come out of the woodwork. I'm eager to see what happens.

Only problem is that the publisher that helps fund the rest of High Voltage's work may try controlling what happens with that engine, in which case we'd better hope it's a quality publisher.

That could be a way Ubisoft gets back on our good graces. The publish the game, offer great marketing for it (ads on TV, for one, on channels people actually watch), state the game will be exactly as HV intends, and then state the engine will be used to make high budget Wii games at low budget prices. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The only game that i can think of in the forseeable future as a good game and should probally be advertised a little will be the new FF:CC



"Like you know"

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@picko - I do understand your point and I was addressing it in a different manner. The "casual" crowd doesn't go out and buy many games. They are happy with Wii Sports, Wii Play, Carnival Games, Raving Rabbids and Wii Fit. THey probably will go out and get Mario Kart also. Putting out clones of these games and other mini games is a well that dries up quickly. 3rd party developers will find that harsh reality soon enough. They need to start making gateway games - games that take those casual gamers and start challenging them a little more, bringing them to the more serious game level. Some already have advanced, playing Mario Galaxy and whatnot. This is a big step from just bowling for 10 minutes into playing out a full game.

If a developer puts out a full AAA title, they'll put out a million or so copies. Considering that Wii games take an average of 5 million to make on the high end, a good AAA title would stand to make that developer around 20 mil+. Compare that to the average PETZ game, which might take a mil or 2 to make, but only sells 100k. They might make 2 mil plus, thus barely breaking even.

So the point is, there is a great reason to develop AAA games on the Wii - profit.



I'd like to note, that I was the first person who spazzed out to the entire Ubisoft thing on the Wii before there was an ubisoft thing, in fact I'd like to note that a guy who works at nintendo store warned me about ubisoft. I didn't listen to him got the PoP and cried myself to sleep.

PoP = The Club (quick relation for you Ps3 guys)

To prove it I rated Alien Syndrome on gamefaqs (4/10) and mentioned ubisoft is dead to me.

XD I'm slowly learning that the only developer to buy from is Nintendo and Capcom.



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D

From what im seeing developers are ignoring the core fanbase on the wii and only focusing on the casual audience. Its good that these develoepers are making titles for the casual demographic they just cant ignore the core base or they will lose respect/faith from gamers, the masses and also potential profit. Just because the wii is so cheap for making software doesnt mean you cant fork over some money to make a good game. It dissapoints me to see games like RE4 and Star Wars Rogue Squadron looking better than any of these third party wii titles.



Red4ADevil said:
From what im seeing developers are ignoring the core fanbase on the wii and only focusing on the casual audience. Its good that these develoepers are making titles for the casual demographic they just cant ignore the core base or they will lose respect/faith from gamers, the masses and also potential profit. Just because the wii is so cheap for making software doesnt mean you cant fork over some money to make a good game. It dissapoints me to see games like RE4 and Star Wars Rogue Squadron looking better than any of these third party wii titles.

Or Twilight Princess, which was actually criticized for not having the graphics updated on the Wii version. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

TP really did look amazing from time to time, but the game was just epic over all, I only wish I wasn't forced to use the world from time to time, but later on the wolf is cool too... wish it ran faster.



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D