Good on ya, speak up for what you believe in, ignore the haters.

But then your not taking things into consideration such as development resources,developtment time , development costs , Marketing etc i'm pretty sure a game like No More Heroes takes more of that which was listed than Ubisoft's shovelware games.

		Wii Sports		Nintendo	48,731	7.86	23.66m
2		Wii Play		Nintendo	26,393	6.83	12.49m
3		Super Mario Galaxy		Nintendo	135,345	8.12	6.56m
4		Super Smash Bros Brawl		Nintendo	90,085	8.03	5.38m
5		Mario Party 8		Nintendo	24,518	7.46	5.20m
6		Mario Kart Wii		Nintendo	44,389	7.78	5.12m
7		The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess		Nintendo	36,775	8.26	4.81m
8		Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games		Sega	8,258	7.76	4.44m
9		Wii Fit		Nintendo	46,691	7.86	4.37m
10		Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock		RedOctane	19,048	7.69	2.70m
11		Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree		Nintendo	8,928	7.41	2.37m
12		Super Paper Mario		Nintendo	14,749	7.79	2.34m
13		Wario Ware: Smooth Moves		Nintendo	6,602	7.38	2.34m
14		Link's Crossbow Training		Nintendo	14,733	7.34	1.98m
15		Carnival Games		Global Star	10,529	7.24	1.86m
16		Mario Strikers Charged		Nintendo	15,788	7.80	1.65m
17		Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition		Capcom	47,983	8.13	1.60m
18		Metroid Prime 3: Corruption		Nintendo	52,268	8.09	1.37m
19		Sonic and the Secret Rings		Sega	11,743	7.75	1.37m
20		Rayman Raving Rabbids		Ubisoft	6,890	7.66	1.34m

Applying my defintion of casual i've highlited all the games I believe to be casual titles , titles aimed at pretty much anyone who is able to pick up a Wii Mote and play no real specific target audience, age group,race , sex etc. only 25% of the top best selling games are Hardcore games ,so it's pretty much beyond debate that the majority of the Wii demographic are casual gamers.

Casuals games are usualy generic, open , easy in nature(they have to be to apeal to everyone) . I think it's pretty much been established that casual games are cheaper to make , i'm sure the budged for the top 5 best selling Nintendo games isn't as much as the development costs for Killzone 2 or Gears Of War.

So if I (the business) can spend a fraction of the cost on developement are sell to the mass market , then why would 10 casual games selling 200k-100k each be worse than 1 casual game selling 1 mill.

 A made a pretty big mistake on the maths analogy , but you get my point .

Imperial said: sc94597 said: Imperial said: LordTheNightKnight said: Munkeh111 said: sc94597 said: @Munkeh, The problem is that they said they will give us nintendo quality on the wii. Then they lied and said there isn't a hardcore market on the wii knowing very well the first 3rd party million seller on it was red steel( one of theirs games) and it was hardcore. The crappy games Petz Dogs, and Petz Catz sold 200k each. Not that much compared to 27 million wii owners. That is also 1 for every 128 wii owners. So please see the full picture before posting. They changed their minds, they thought that it made the business sense to do it this way after they thought that. Anyway, mabye they are making more comparisons with stuff like Wii fit and the other casual Nintendo titles, though not quite the level of SMG (do you really expect them to be able to match Nintedo's best?) You obviously haven't seen the pics of the games. Wii Sports walks all over the games they are doing.   And of course a fanboy like imperial would try to imply those games are magically not fit for the Wii, and try to plug the PS3 at the same time (because he certainly has no love for the Xbox or 360). Excuse me but I don't appreciate being called a fanboy for expressing my opinion ,on that basis you and everyone else on these forums are fanboys. Usualy the ones that do the name calling are only describing themselves. I never said those games weren't fit for the Wii , I said unlike many nintendo fanboys Ubisoft understands the Wii demographic in more depth than any of your anecdotal crap will ever. If your upset with a console making casual games for a mostly casual console then you've obviously picked the wrong console this gen. No we are upset they are making crappy games. Casual doesn't = crappy. And if the userbase is all casual and like these games why do they sell so poorly? 200K? NOt much for a userbase filled with these casuals. 1 out of every 128 people bought the games btw.    But then your not taking things into consideration such as development resources,developtment time , development costs , Marketing etc i'm pretty sure a game like No More Heroes takes more of that which was listed than Ubisoft's shovelware games.   Wii Sports Nintendo 48,731 7.86 23.66m 2 Wii Play Nintendo 26,393 6.83 12.49m 3 Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 135,345 8.12 6.56m 4 Super Smash Bros Brawl Nintendo 90,085 8.03 5.38m 5 Mario Party 8 Nintendo 24,518 7.46 5.20m 6 Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 44,389 7.78 5.12m 7 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 36,775 8.26 4.81m 8 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Sega 8,258 7.76 4.44m 9 Wii Fit Nintendo 46,691 7.86 4.37m 10 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 19,048 7.69 2.70m 11 Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree Nintendo 8,928 7.41 2.37m 12 Super Paper Mario Nintendo 14,749 7.79 2.34m 13 Wario Ware: Smooth Moves Nintendo 6,602 7.38 2.34m 14 Link's Crossbow Training Nintendo 14,733 7.34 1.98m 15 Carnival Games Global Star 10,529 7.24 1.86m 16 Mario Strikers Charged Nintendo 15,788 7.80 1.65m 17 Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition Capcom 47,983 8.13 1.60m 18 Metroid Prime 3: Corruption Nintendo 52,268 8.09 1.37m 19 Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 11,743 7.75 1.37m 20 Rayman Raving Rabbids Ubisoft 6,890 7.66 1.34m Applying my defintion of casual i've highlited all the games I believe to be casual titles , titles aimed at pretty much anyone who is able to pick up a Wii Mote and play no real specific target audience, age group,race , sex etc. only 25% of the top best selling games are Hardcore games ,so it's pretty much beyond debate that the majority of the Wii demographic are casual gamers.   Casuals games are usualy generic, open , easy in nature(they have to be to apeal to everyone) . I think it's pretty much been established that casual games are cheaper to make , i'm sure the budged for the top 5 best selling Nintendo games isn't as much as the development costs for Killzone 2 or Gears Of War.  So if I (the business) can spend a fraction of the cost on developement are sell to the mass market , then why would 10 casual games selling 200k-100k each be worse than 1 casual game selling 1 mill.

 http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=28196 There you go.This proves hardcore games outsell casual games on the wii.

Until Ubisoft's position regarding the Wii is cleared up, I'm not buying any of their games for any platform... Don't want to regret it later.

sc94597 said: Imperial said: sc94597 said: Imperial said: LordTheNightKnight said: Munkeh111 said: sc94597 said: @Munkeh, The problem is that they said they will give us nintendo quality on the wii. Then they lied and said there isn't a hardcore market on the wii knowing very well the first 3rd party million seller on it was red steel( one of theirs games) and it was hardcore. The crappy games Petz Dogs, and Petz Catz sold 200k each. Not that much compared to 27 million wii owners. That is also 1 for every 128 wii owners. So please see the full picture before posting. They changed their minds, they thought that it made the business sense to do it this way after they thought that. Anyway, mabye they are making more comparisons with stuff like Wii fit and the other casual Nintendo titles, though not quite the level of SMG (do you really expect them to be able to match Nintedo's best?) You obviously haven't seen the pics of the games. Wii Sports walks all over the games they are doing.   And of course a fanboy like imperial would try to imply those games are magically not fit for the Wii, and try to plug the PS3 at the same time (because he certainly has no love for the Xbox or 360). Excuse me but I don't appreciate being called a fanboy for expressing my opinion ,on that basis you and everyone else on these forums are fanboys. Usualy the ones that do the name calling are only describing themselves. I never said those games weren't fit for the Wii , I said unlike many nintendo fanboys Ubisoft understands the Wii demographic in more depth than any of your anecdotal crap will ever. If your upset with a console making casual games for a mostly casual console then you've obviously picked the wrong console this gen. No we are upset they are making crappy games. Casual doesn't = crappy. And if the userbase is all casual and like these games why do they sell so poorly? 200K? NOt much for a userbase filled with these casuals. 1 out of every 128 people bought the games btw.   But then your not taking things into consideration such as development resources,developtment time , development costs , Marketing etc i'm pretty sure a game like No More Heroes takes more of that which was listed than Ubisoft's shovelware games.   Wii Sports Nintendo 48,731 7.86 23.66m 2 Wii Play Nintendo 26,393 6.83 12.49m 3 Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 135,345 8.12 6.56m 4 Super Smash Bros Brawl Nintendo 90,085 8.03 5.38m 5 Mario Party 8 Nintendo 24,518 7.46 5.20m 6 Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 44,389 7.78 5.12m 7 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 36,775 8.26 4.81m 8 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Sega 8,258 7.76 4.44m 9 Wii Fit Nintendo 46,691 7.86 4.37m 10 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 19,048 7.69 2.70m 11 Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree Nintendo 8,928 7.41 2.37m 12 Super Paper Mario Nintendo 14,749 7.79 2.34m 13 Wario Ware: Smooth Moves Nintendo 6,602 7.38 2.34m 14 Link's Crossbow Training Nintendo 14,733 7.34 1.98m 15 Carnival Games Global Star 10,529 7.24 1.86m 16 Mario Strikers Charged Nintendo 15,788 7.80 1.65m 17 Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition Capcom 47,983 8.13 1.60m 18 Metroid Prime 3: Corruption Nintendo 52,268 8.09 1.37m 19 Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 11,743 7.75 1.37m 20 Rayman Raving Rabbids Ubisoft 6,890 7.66 1.34m Applying my defintion of casual i've highlited all the games I believe to be casual titles , titles aimed at pretty much anyone who is able to pick up a Wii Mote and play no real specific target audience, age group,race , sex etc. only 25% of the top best selling games are Hardcore games ,so it's pretty much beyond debate that the majority of the Wii demographic are casual gamers. Casuals games are usualy generic, open , easy in nature(they have to be to apeal to everyone) . I think it's pretty much been established that casual games are cheaper to make , i'm sure the budged for the top 5 best selling Nintendo games isn't as much as the development costs for Killzone 2 or Gears Of War. So if I (the business) can spend a fraction of the cost on developement are sell to the mass market , then why would 10 casual games selling 200k-100k each be worse than 1 casual game selling 1 mill. http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=28196 There you go.This proves hardcore games outsell casual games on the wii.

This is a pretty much constant theme in Nintendo Discussion but I haven't seen a breakdown of actual sales anywhere in said threads.

These are the million selling Wii games according to VG Chartz (some data is missing but it's the best we've got to go on). I've designated them hardcore or casual. Feel free to disagree as it's a crappy and arbitrary distinction anyway but one the industry is obsessed by and probably will be for a while yet. If I can imagine my parents or a non-gaming friend wanting to play it I've labelled it casual. So basically casual here means accessible. Core gamers may also like it. IMO MK, Sonic, Lego Star Wars and GH3 don't fit into either because they have very easy and very core aspects so I've labelled them "both".

Pos	Game	Console	Publisher	Hits	Score	Sales
1		Wii Sports		Nintendo	48,616	7.86	23.66m
2		Wii Play		Nintendo	26,312	6.83	12.49m
3		Super Mario Galaxy		Nintendo	135,232	8.12	6.56m
4		Super Smash Bros Brawl		Nintendo	89,930	8.03	5.38m
5		Mario Party 8		Nintendo	24,502	7.46	5.20m
6		Mario Kart Wii		Nintendo	44,141	7.78	5.12m
7		The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess		Nintendo	36,734	8.26	4.81m
8		Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games		Sega	8,173	7.76	4.44m
9		Wii Fit		Nintendo	46,132	7.86	4.37m
10		Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock		RedOctane	18,992	7.69	2.70m
11		Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree		Nintendo	8,926	7.41	2.37m
12		Wario Ware: Smooth Moves		Nintendo	6,596	7.38	2.34m
13		Super Paper Mario		Nintendo	14,731	7.79	2.34m
14		Link's Crossbow Training		Nintendo	14,698	7.34	1.98m
15		Carnival Games		Global Star	10,512	7.24	1.86m
16		Mario Strikers Charged		Nintendo	15,772	7.80	1.65m
17		Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition		Capcom	47,933	8.13	1.60m
18		Metroid Prime 3: Corruption		Nintendo	52,214	8.09	1.37m
19		Sonic and the Secret Rings		Sega	11,720	7.75	1.37m
20		Rayman Raving Rabbids		Ubisoft	6,874	7.66	1.34m
21		Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga		LucasArts	10,411	7.75	1.24m
22		Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles		Capcom	33,040	7.77	1.22m
23		Rayman Raving Rabbids 2		Ubisoft	11,983	7.75	1.20m
24		MySims		Electronic Arts	6,918	7.25	1.07m
25		Red Steel		Ubisoft	5,658	7.04	1.05m

Wii Sports - casual

Wii Play - casual

Super Mario Galaxy - NOT HARDCORE , Generic Game, Simple Storyline , Simple Gameplay Mechanics , Mild Violence, could apeal to anyone and everyone , no specific target audience.

Super Smash Bros Brawl - hardcore

Mario Party 8 - casual

Mario Kart Wii - - NOT HARDCORE , Generic Game, Simple Storyline , Simple Gameplay Mechanics , Mild Violence, could apeal to anyone and everyone , no specific target audience.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - hardcore

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - casual

Wii Fit - casual

Guitar Hero 3 - By defintion a game that is Casual and hardcore is casual (Negative + Plus = Negative )

Big Brain Academy - casual

WarioWare - casual

Super Paper Mario - NOT HARDCORE , Generic Game, Simple Storyline , Simple Gameplay Mechanics , Mild Violence, could apeal to anyone and everyone , no specific target audience.

Link's Crossbow Training - casual

Carnival Games - casual

Mario Strikers Charged - casual

Resident Evil 4 - hardcore

Metroid Prime 3 - hardcore

Sonic and the Secret Rings -By defintion a game that is Casual and hardcore is casual (Negative + Plus = Negative )

Rayman Raving Rabbids - casual

Lego Star Wars - By defintion a game that is Casual and hardcore is casual (Negative + Plus = Negative )

Resident Evil UC - hardcore

Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 - casual

My Sims - casual

Red Steel - hardcore

I find there's a problem with your defintion of "Casual".

My definition of a casual game is a pretty much generic game which is simple in gameplay mechanics,storyline and overall game concept , there is generaly little or no violence in these games. I think Casual games are synonymous with Mass Market games , they apeal to everyone , try to offend no one for maximum profitability.

Mcdonalds could be seen as the "casual game" of the resturaunt industry, generic food , simple in taste , apeals to everyone ,offends no one = Maximum profitability.

Wheras Itallian food is more the "hardcore game" of the resturaunt industry , specific taste , specific target audience , more people are likely to dislike this kind of foor than are likely to dislike Mcdonalds.

Once you apply my definition ( a definition which I believe to be more accurate ) you'll find most of the wii's sales are casual.

  A made a pretty big mistake on the maths analogy , but you get my point .

@ Lordoftheknight

I don't want to go off topic, but how does Ubisoft hate money?

I mean, has Assassin's Creed, or any of the Splinter Cell games not made them money?

I don't get that.

They are making money off of the PS360.

Well, there goes you credibility Imperial, not that you had any in the first place.

Calling SMG generic, tsk.

 Their last 4 tom clancy games have all sold well over 1m multiplat and all of those games are giving them loads of money as well as the huge success that was assassins creed

 Maybe they should just stop making games on the Wii like other 3d Party devs are doing.

Exactly my point...

So how do they hate money?