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Forums - Sony Discussion - "MGS4 has two cutscenes nearing the 90 minute mark" - EDGE

Soriku said:
Kasz216 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
no long MGS cutscenes = NO CGI in FF = no Poke Balls in Pokemon = No minigames on wii

{the last = was joke before I am attacked & ripped to shreds)

But Final Fantasy games were better before CGI.


 

Eh...I really liked the CGI in FF IX though they didn't really spam CGI. I thought FF IX was good at balancing scenes and gameplay.

Honestly, it's more then that.  Once they got CGI Final Fantasy games became obssessed with them and all other aspects of the games seemed to suffer.  Outside of everythign looking a lot better every hour or two.

I don't even get why they had cutscenes in FF12.  It looked nearly exactly the same except the hair was more realitic looking.



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Magnific0 said:
Games like Xenogears had hours of idle babbling, and Xenosaga games have as much babbling plus several 30-minute cut-scenes. Then there's MGS series which has ALWAYS been critizied for "talking heads" and yada yada yada...I think in all those games (except for Xenogears) you're given the option to SKIP the cutscenes and fast-forward the reading. If you don't want/can't/won't watch a long cut-scene/long discussion, then just don't and continue playing the game. You can always save your game before the long "movie" so you can later watch it at your own pace, if you choose to do so. I don't see the problem.

The difference between cutscenes and RPG babling is... most people can read 10 times faster then they can listen.

If in text form a 90 minute cutscene is less then 10 minutes long.



@Kasz

I agree

FF6 pwns all

but NOW FF is recognized for CGI....if FF13 came out n had no CGI there would be a riot in the media...I meant it in that sense



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

DTG said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:
psrock said:
just skip it, that is all.

Well if you do that then you won't know what the fuck's going on, now won't you?

Actually, that's probably still true even if you don't skip them, this being Metal Gear and all...


 Frankly if you strip the story away there isn't enough gameplay to justify a 60$ price here. Much of the budget, creative talent and thought went into creating the storyline and cinematics and while the gameplay is excellent it is short and in some ways archaic in its mechanics and functions.

MGS really is about the storyline, if you're not a fan of Kojima's plots then you should skip this game all together, not just the cutscenes... 


 so 40 hours of gameplay plus easter eggs that extend game play time like the Assasson's Creed outfit isnt worth it? So a game like Halo 2 which has been beaten in less then 3 hours is worth its price too?

 

Plus this just proves this site has a ton of people who fail at reading comprehension. 2 cutscenes = 90 minutes, not 2 cutscenes that are 90 minutes each. 



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well, it wont be a problem for regular fans,wholl likely be fascinated by the cut-scenes,or at least bear through them to get to the "playing" part
but it really sounds like a bad idea to make them 90 min long. Kojima might just be trying to realize his dream of directing a film here,but a 90 min cut-scene represents waste and inefficiency,evils usually avoided by good story-tellers



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 ....and I'll look down and whisper  "no."  

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bbsin said:
FJ-Warez said:
Musouka said:
Here is what they said about the game (removed 2 points since they were near-spoilers):

- Not a game for MGS outsiders
- two cut-scenes near the 90 minute mark
- Camera flow effortless between 1st and 3rd person view
- Control system has "at last" the ideal balance of intuitvness and range.
- Game can be played for months rather than days.
- MGS4 is not the game it could of been, nor the game it should have been if you believed the early trailers (??)
- But is very faithful to its fans and delivers without equal in so many ways

Source (possible spoilers inside)

Well for one side is sort of bad, is almost the lenght of a movie... but since is just for fans...

The second point I think is about the graphics, the early trailers are CGI, the new ones are in-game, and there is a clear difference...


The early trailers were not CGI, it was all based on their game engine that happened to be running on a computer b/c Sony didn't send out the dev tools yet. The only thing KojimaPro had to determine how MGS4 would look like is the early PS3 specs, they must not have realized (just like everyone else) that coding for the PS3 was going to be so inconvenient.


I think they meant story-wise. We were only shown one place in the trailers (the warzone). Kojima once mentioned that there will be 4 countries in the game, if I can remember correctly. Think of it the same as MGS2 trailers. All we were shown was the tanker stage. No one knew about Raiden... and then... there were surprises.



No foreign sky protected me,
No stranger's wing shielded my face.
I stand as witness to the common lot,
survivor of that time, that place.

- From 'Requiem' by Anna Akhmatova

darthdevidem01 said:
@Kasz

I agree

FF6 pwns all

but NOW FF is recognized for CGI....if FF13 came out n had no CGI there would be a riot in the media...I meant it in that sense

No it would mean the game would more than likely be exceptional. It would be able to stand up on its in game graphics, story, gameplay, and characters. As Kasz said earlier, once Square started doing CGI they seemed to be more focused on it than the actual game.

As for 90 minute cutscenes in MGS4, its just cements my now complete disinterest in the game. It seems that hardware restriction can be a good thing sometimes. MGS1 was exceptional and as Kojima has gotten more powerful hardware he's gotten farther and farther away from what made MGS1 great. Extremely long cutscenes reek of poor story telling ability. A truly great video game story is interwoven to the game itself. It doesn't bring the game to a complete halt and force the player to put down the controller and watch for extended periods of time.

 



DTG said:
shio said:
The excessive rely on cutscenes proves once again that Kojima is not a great storyteller, and he cannot tell a complex videogame story well.

Peoples idea of a complex video game story told well seem to be the Half Life series and Bioshock. I'm sorry, but those games were not complex by any stretch of the immagination. Deus Ex is another popular example, and while telling a great narrative, it was nowhere near as fleshed out in either creating it's universe, characters and storyarch nor in exploring it's themes it clearly tried to pursue as was MGS2.

Of course not every game should be like MGS2, but my point is that Kojima's ambitions simply cannot be presented through gameplay alone. They need hefty scenes of dialogue and lengthy exposition to translate in their complete form to the player that is willing to listen. It's an aquired taste.


My barometer is Planescape: Torment, which has a superior and deeper story than the entire MGS series. What I was saying is Kojima can't make a great videogame story without resorting to cutscenes only. It's fine if it's a game where the story is not the main concern, but when it's a story-centric game, using only cutscenes to tell the story is fatal.

Not only that, but the stories in MGS are convoluted, and then everything must be explained in the dialogues in order to be understood. Kojima simply is not able to story tell in the gameplay (interactively). That is common in most japanese developers.

As for Deus Ex, it does approach alot of subjects, and as deeply as any MGS game. The difference between Deus Ex and an MGS is that Deus has a far superior writing, presentation and interactivity; so it doesn't need to explain things as if it was a documentary or an interview.



ssj12 said:
DTG said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:
psrock said:
just skip it, that is all.

Well if you do that then you won't know what the fuck's going on, now won't you?

Actually, that's probably still true even if you don't skip them, this being Metal Gear and all...


Frankly if you strip the story away there isn't enough gameplay to justify a 60$ price here. Much of the budget, creative talent and thought went into creating the storyline and cinematics and while the gameplay is excellent it is short and in some ways archaic in its mechanics and functions.

MGS really is about the storyline, if you're not a fan of Kojima's plots then you should skip this game all together, not just the cutscenes...


so 40 hours of gameplay plus easter eggs that extend game play time like the Assasson's Creed outfit isnt worth it? So a game like Halo 2 which has been beaten in less then 3 hours is worth its price too?

 

Plus this just proves this site has a ton of people who fail at reading comprehension. 2 cutscenes = 90 minutes, not 2 cutscenes that are 90 minutes each.


 I think it's clear that you are failing at reading comprehension in this case. PSW specifically said "each" cutscene being over 90 minutes long with Edge reiterating that by saying, I quote "two in particular [cutscenes] coming perilously close to 90 minute mark". No where does it imply that they simply lumped two separate cutscenes together. That wouldn't make any sense now would it as it wouldn't constitute news considering even MGS2 has two 40 minute cutscenes that if added together (for some inexplicable reason, why on earth would you add two random cutscenes together to prove a point?) would roll in close to one and a half hours. If you add two and two together, being PSW and Edge it becomes quite clear that we are talking about two separate 90 minute cutscenes here.

 Also, I am  baffled by you mentioning "40 hours gameplay plus easter eggs". Have you played past MGS games and have you actually been following previews for the finale? Reviewers have all mentioned the gameplay time being around 10-20 hours with 9 hours of cutscenes bringing the total play time to between 20-29 hours.



shio said:
DTG said:
shio said:
The excessive rely on cutscenes proves once again that Kojima is not a great storyteller, and he cannot tell a complex videogame story well.

Peoples idea of a complex video game story told well seem to be the Half Life series and Bioshock. I'm sorry, but those games were not complex by any stretch of the immagination. Deus Ex is another popular example, and while telling a great narrative, it was nowhere near as fleshed out in either creating it's universe, characters and storyarch nor in exploring it's themes it clearly tried to pursue as was MGS2.

Of course not every game should be like MGS2, but my point is that Kojima's ambitions simply cannot be presented through gameplay alone. They need hefty scenes of dialogue and lengthy exposition to translate in their complete form to the player that is willing to listen. It's an aquired taste.


My barometer is Planescape: Torment, which has a superior and deeper story than the entire MGS series. What I was saying is Kojima can't make a great videogame story without resorting to cutscenes only. It's fine if it's a game where the story is not the main concern, but when it's a story-centric game, using only cutscenes to tell the story is fatal.

Not only that, but the stories in MGS are convoluted, and then everything must be explained in the dialogues in order to be understood. Kojima simply is not able to story tell in the gameplay (interactively). That is common in most japanese developers.

As for Deus Ex, it does approach alot of subjects, and as deeply as any MGS game. The difference between Deus Ex and an MGS is that Deus has a far superior writing, presentation and interactivity; so it doesn't need to explain things as if it was a documentary or an interview.


Planescape Torment did have a deep and excellent storyline. However saying that it had but only a few cutscenes is an understatement of the most extreme. The game has been referred to as an interactive novel for the amount of dialogue it contains. PT's script contains between 800 thousand words to over a million, easily trumping the size of even MGS2's 800 page magnus opus script. Most of the game involves extensive reading. I suppose it depends what you define as being a "cutscene" exactly. I consider any non interactive story exposition to be a cutscene. While PT's conversations often contained multiple choice answers which were interactive, much of the dialogue was still presented to you in a relatively linear fashion despite the instances of branching conversation tree's. Furthermore that sort of presentation would only work for an RPG game, it would be far too slow and sluggish for an action/stealth game such as MGS4.