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Forums - Gaming - CNET generation predictions

Loud_Hot_White_Box said:
HappySqurriel said:
Loud_Hot_White_Box said:
DOATS1 said:
wow, what data did they use to make those predictions?

Maybe they looked at the PS2, plus anticipated price drops for PS3 making it a much better value at a low price than either of the other consoles, plus the longer-term viability of HD as opposed to SD putting a sort of upper cap on the Wii. Plus research use of networked PS3 clusters for supercomputer purposes. ;)

The Wii could sell more than they indicate if it becomes truly household after Wii Fit. Nintendo will have to increase production by a lot though, and the bulk of sales will have to happen relatively soon (within the years indicated on that chart.)


1) The question isn't whether consumers will see greater value in a $300 PS3 than they would see in a $300 Wii, the real question is whether consumers will see a greater value in the $300 PS3 as compared to a $175 to $200 Wii; this really depends more on how many games with general appeal each console has, and how much value people really see in the non gaming functionality.

2) HD may be an important feature in the long term, but optimistic projections had it at a 50% penetration into American households by 2010 assuming the purchasing rates that were established in 2001 through 2006; the adoption may be slower due to the ecconomic downturn, and even if they're met that still leaves over 50% of the market because not all people who own HDTVs will care about HD gaming.

3) I don't really see any reason why the Wii has a limited timeframe while the PS3 wouldn't ...


 1. True in a way, but consumers won't necessarily buy just one or the other.  And as PS3 drops in price, (even as the huge games roll out), its value to people just explodes.  Regardless of the price of Wii, and even 360.

2.  I expect a large uptick in HDTV adoption given the all-digital-signal TV switch in Feb '09 and much, much lower prices on average than, say, we saw in '01-'05.

3. I kind of assume since it's SD, that somewhat limits it, in part because Nintendo will probably bring out a 720p-capable successor in a few years.  That machine (call it Wii2), also decently low-priced and fully backwards compatible and with a similar control scheme, would cut off Wii sales much more than the expensive PS3 cut off the cheap PS2's sales.  It will limit Wii sales on the back end, but don't get me wrong, that's not any kind of failing for Nintendo; it'll be a great business move.  Wii plus Wii2 sales over any period will be much higher than Wii sales alone.  (assumption here is that the next Nintendo machine comes out well before PS4, and cheaper.  Though PS4 will also be cheaper at launch than PS3 because Cell and Blu-Ray will be mature tech.)

Nintendo has made two claims regarding their Wii successor. 

1. It will support HD.

2. It won't come out for a long time.

 

They have no reason to relase a successor while the current mahcine sells so well.   You have to remember, YOU want HD but not everyone cares if their games are in HD or not so the switch to digital and further proliferation of HDTV's won't really mean much.

Also to note, Japan has the highest concentration fo HDTV's in the world and how's the console battle going over there?

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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Loud_Hot_White_Box said:
 

3. I kind of assume since it's SD, that somewhat limits it, in part because Nintendo will probably bring out a 720p-capable successor in a few years. That machine (call it Wii2), also decently low-priced and fully backwards compatible and with a similar control scheme, would cut off Wii sales much more than the expensive PS3 cut off the cheap PS2's sales. It will limit Wii sales on the back end, but don't get me wrong, that's not any kind of failing for Nintendo; it'll be a great business move. Wii plus Wii2 sales over any period will be much higher than Wii sales alone. (assumption here is that the next Nintendo machine comes out well before PS4, and cheaper. Though PS4 will also be cheaper at launch than PS3 because Cell and Blu-Ray will be mature tech.)


 Can you name the generation where Nintendo was first to the market? Can you name the generation where Nintendo wasn't last on the market? They had horrible sales with the Gamecube and still stuck it out till the bitter end. Why on earth do people assume that the extremely successful Wii will follow a different path?



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Loud_Hot_White_Box said:

 1. True in a way, but consumers won't necessarily buy just one or the other.  And as PS3 drops in price, (even as the huge games roll out), its value to people just explodes.  Regardless of the price of Wii, and even 360.

2.  I expect a large uptick in HDTV adoption given the all-digital-signal TV switch in Feb '09 and much, much lower prices on average than, say, we saw in '01-'05.

3. I kind of assume since it's SD, that somewhat limits it, in part because Nintendo will probably bring out a 720p-capable successor in a few years.  That machine (call it Wii2), also decently low-priced and fully backwards compatible and with a similar control scheme, would cut off Wii sales much more than the expensive PS3 cut off the cheap PS2's sales.  It will limit Wii sales on the back end, but don't get me wrong, that's not any kind of failing for Nintendo; it'll be a great business move.  Wii plus Wii2 sales over any period will be much higher than Wii sales alone.  (assumption here is that the next Nintendo machine comes out well before PS4, and cheaper.  Though PS4 will also be cheaper at launch than PS3 because Cell and Blu-Ray will be mature tech.)


1) As we have seen from the recent release of Grand Theft Auto 4, the huge games that have been announced for the PS3 are already being factored into current console purchases and it is unlikely that the release of these games will increase the value of the PS3 to consumers. With the exception of games that define a new market (like Nintendogs or Brain Training) few games actually have any impact on long term sales trends after they're released.

2) Maybe ... Being that people are feeling the crunch from higher oil prices, the loss of easy to access home equity credit, and the eventual tax hikes in the United States people are (probabaly) going to have less desire to make large purchases without reason. Certainly the digital switch over will impact some people, but this only impacts people who receive their television through an antenna which is a very tiny minority.

Beyond that, a large portion of people have bought HDTVs with little concern for the high definition capabilities of the TV. Many purchases are made because the TVs are large, with others being made because the TVs are flat panel displays, and many of those people who are buying them for High Definition have no (real) understanding of what High Definition means.

The last thing to consider when it comes to HDTV adoption is that there was a survey done last year which demonstrated that (something like) 75% of Wii owners had a HDTV; there is nothing saying that you can not (or will not) buy a Wii once you have a HDTV.

3) Its hard to say what Nintendo will or will not do ... Nintendo favours waiting until their competition begins the next generation before they enter into it; I suspect the reason for this is Nintendo is (at their heart) a software company and are completely happy as long as they can maintain high software sales.

If Microsoft (or Sony) decides to begin the generation in 2010 or 2011 I suspect that you will see the next generation Nintendo system released soon afterwords; at the same time, it is amazingly likely that both these systems will have far greater capabilities than the PS3 or XBox 360 and will be sold at a reasonable price ($300 equivalent) which would limit the potential sales of the PS3 or XBox 360 after this point.



Current technology isn't advanced enough to make an HD Wii. Even in 5 years time it might be a tricky task.



Malstrom already criticized that article:
http://malstrom.50webs.com/news.htm


What is wrong with the analysts? on May 23, 2008

Guys...

Is this a joke? Not only does the PS3 mysteriously skyrocket in the end with Wii flattening off like a rock, look at the 2008 and 2009 sales numbers for the Wii. I have been trying to understand you analysts...

I can understand missing the DS explosion.

I can understand why you predicted PS3 to succeed and Wii to not do much.

I can understand why you thought Wii would become a fad after the first initial months of sales.

But how, at this time, can you get behind that chart is beyond me. Seriously. I don't understand the logic of the chart.

You can't say technology as Xbox 360 is as powerful as PS3.

You can't say Blu-Ray as, even with its victory, Blu-Ray isn't selling.

You can't say content as the Wii has been matching Sony in the number of software released.

Outside of tradition of simply putting PS3 on top, what is the rationale for doing so? Is there any rationale?

Like you, reader, I have been attempting to understand these analysts and why they keep putting PS3 on top.

First, I thought they hadn't caught on to Nintendo's new strategies. But then I realized that no analyst seems interested in seriously studying Nintendo. At least, not the analysts that speak to the press. Other analyst reports given to me by investors have shown a very different conclusion than the 5 analysts we keep hearing about in the press.

Second, I thought they kept putting PS3 on top because of denial. But no one could possibly be in denial this long.

Third, I thought they were just trying to stir up an image of a competitive fight so investors would keep buying reports from them. But they declared the PS2 early winner last time.

Fourth, I thought they were talking like salesmen in order to keep appearing in the press to keep selling their reports. But even a salesman would not go against the obvious.

Fifth, I wondered if they were truly this stupid. But they have to analyze stock so they can't be that dumb.

I'm running out of options. The only one I have left is 'fanboy'. But it is the only one that seems to match the available analyst actions...

    “While a pick-up in PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware sales benefiting from GTA IV is not evident in the [April NPD] data, we believe May could show some sequential improvement,” offered Lazard Capital Markets analyst Colin Sebastian.

    NPD analyst Anita Frazier concurred, "... Since [GTA IV] was only in the market for five days during this reporting period, that [hardware] sales lift could very well be evident in May data."

Anyone who said 5 days wouldn't be enough to show any uptick in hardware sales would have been laughed out of even the most common gaming forum.

My reaction to the April 2008 NPD was that there WAS probably an uptick in hardware sales which shows how damaging the disruption is to Sony and Microsoft:

    While the hardware sales impact of GTA IV may have been weaker during April than some had expected, had the game not released last month PS3 and 360 sales would likely have been even lower - Microsoft's Gamerscore marketing blog reported that Xbox 360 sales jumped 54 percent week-over-week during the game’s first seven days on the market. Unfortunately NPD doesn't provide a weekly hardware sales breakdown, so it's unclear exactly what proportion of the Xbox 360s and PS3s sold during April were picked up in the final week of the month when GTA IV was available.

If hardware DID jump up for April, doesn't that make the already bad sales for HD consoles even WORSE?

    But most agree that Microsoft's answer to its quality problems has been a case study in responsiveness.
     

    "You have to give them a ton of credit," said Pachter, referring to Microsoft's offer of three-year warranties for Xbox 360s. "They didn't back away from it, and they didn't try to blame it on anybody else."

Huh? Microsoft kept saying the Xbox 360 hardware problems were only around 3% and many problems aren't even covered with the warranty. Peter Moore even said 'you know, things break'. Only when they revealed the extended warranty did they get rid of Moore and replace him. Why do people seem to have a very short memory this generation?

While these analysts that are quoted in the press keep saying Sony will win, likely based on a belief that Blu-Ray will somehow become popular and everyone will buy a PS3 for Blu-Ray (haha), there is one quote that largely leads me to believe these characters are Sony fanboys. While it is a long quote, it is very revealing.

Remember Strategy Analytics that said Nintendo should go third party back during the Gamecube Era? I notice they haven't said anything lately so I did some research and this is the last thing I have found when they specifically talk about Nintendo. It's hilarious:

Remember, this is from January, 2007 right after the Wii launched...

    Nintendo helped create the modern videogames industry, and the company remains a leading force and is financially successful. In spite of this, Strategy Analytics’ games reports over the years (in which I have been the principal contributor) have cast doubt on the company’s fixed console strategy, and we were proved largely right with the GameCube, which was a major disappointment and drastically missed all Nintendo’s own projections.

    I try not to let my personal preferences influence my professional analysis: I admire the passion displayed by the dedicated followers of the various systems, as indicated by the copious flames that fill my inbox every time my name is attached to a particular pronouncement. For what it’s worth, I have only ever bought Nintendo’s consoles (fixed or portable), for myself or my children. But this has not stopped me taking the view that in the fixed market, Nintendo stands little chance of market leadership in the battle against Sony and Microsoft.

    Latest reports of Nintendo’s recent results in the specialist and business media have an unswervingly positive slant. Financially, the company continues to be extremely strong, and this is supported principally by the company’s domination in handheld gaming (where Sony’s PSP is rapidly losing ground). But surely even Nintendo cannot pretend that its Wii console is meeting expectations. It sold 3.2 million in the first quarter, 20% below its target. But from all the press reports you would think the Wii was already market leader and set to sweep the world.

    Take this from Business Week: “Nintendo's Wii console has blown away Sony's PlayStation 3 in the early stages of the hotly contested battle for next-gen gaming consoles.” Putting journalistic hyperbole aside, the facts are that Nintendo missed its target for global Wii sales by 20% while Sony was within 10% of meeting its own (admittedly reduced) target. And while consumers spent $800m on Wii consoles, they spent $900m on PS3s. Blown away, indeed?

    I have mentioned before that Sony’s games PR is dire. Whatever Nintendo’s PR people are doing, Sony should learn from it, and fast. The PS3 certainly has major challenges ahead, but it’s nowhere near the disaster the press and some financial analysts are painting it. And the world’s leading console platform is still, wait for it, the PS2. By contrast, Nintendo still has a lot to prove if the Wii is really going to revive the company’s fortunes. If its commercial performance is a good as the PR spin, it has every chance of success. The bottom line is, this is a battle that will be fought over years, not in a few weeks before Christmas.

    -David Mercer, his 'analyst' blog, January 31, 2007

In what I bolded, note how Mercer is being defensive about not being a fanboy and that the 'flames' in his mailbox are from the real fanboys?

When someone gets really defensive about something, it is often true.

In this blog post, Mercer sounds unhinged. He literally believes the Wii's success at launch was PR spin and is making outlandish comments to defend the PS3.

I have observed that these analysts tend to know each other personally, and they have a sort of 'club'. From one that I have seen up close, who is big Sony fanboy, I am beginning to suspect that birds of a feather flock together. This particular person (not Mercer) kept hailing the success of UMDs to make everyone think that UMDs were a huge success and didn't inform the public about the true state of UMDs until they were being pulled from retailers as dead as a mini-disc.

What investors have told me is that these analysts just entered the jobs since they heard the pay was good, and they just 'shuffle papers'. In other words, investors have said that your instincts are right: that they don't really know what they're talking about but clothe everything in charts and numbers to make it sound like they do. Let me give two examples of this. One would be the constant obsession of the currency exchange rate. How does currency exchange rate show what is going on with the market? It doesn't. Guys like Pachter have been trying to defend that saying the Wii shortage is due to the drop in the dollar's value yet ignoring that America has always had most of the shipments since day one and that they are increasing because production is increasing.

The other red flag is all the chatter about 'price cuts'. Price cuts are an artificial discount to buy marketshare- that is all. Even recent history shows dropping the price of Gamecube and other systems didn't make much of a difference in the market.

The only conclusion I am left with is that some of these guys are fanboy frauds. Don't expect any investigative journalism to be done on them. These guys give journalists food to put out as stories, and they will not bite the hand that feeds them easy stories.

Right said. 



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kuraobi said:

image removed to save space

It actually looks like that with the complete data.


 I added trend curves:

 

 

Notice that the PS3 curve is still inclined, 6 years after release.  Seems highy unlikely to me.



^ The 2011-2012 increase is clearly smaller than the 2010-2011 increase, so the trend ought to go down, right? I mean, the graph is completely insane; I'm just saying.



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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-9838075-17.html


Wii is about to fail yet by 2012 it will be up there with PS3 sales?

------

December 28, 2007


2008 Prediction 1: The Wii falls flat on its face

Time to fire up the Link suits and the plumber outfits, someone said the Wii is going to fall flat on its face in 2008.

Look, I'll be the first to say that some games (Wii Sports and Mario Party 8) are fun to play with a group of people and Super Mario Galaxy is a somewhat fun single player experience, but where are the rest of the games? Sure, the Wii is popular today, but it looks much more like the fabled Furby of 1998 than a gaming platform that will have longevity.

As I've said here before, video game sales dictate the winners and losers in this industry and as far as I can tell, the Wii is lacking on this front. If you were to take an objective look at the upcoming release calendar for all three consoles, chances are you won't say the Wii has the strongest lineup. Sure, it has Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but where are the games that people can play alone on multiple occasions?

Say what you will, but the Wii's demand will fade and people will be left wondering where all the exciting games are. Suffice it to say, this thing will forever be known as the fad of 2007.



"Suffice it to say, this thing will forever be known as the fad of 2007."
....

Sorry but that "wii is a fad" thing is gettin' pretty old and boring that is too hard to take seriously.



Hahaha, man I just fell in love with CNET. Is there a way to marry a whole company?