@ reask

A lot of it is happening right now, top launch games like Motorstorm and Resistance tapped only 10-15% of the performance what can be delivered by the Cell's SPUs (this could even have been dragged down further through extensive optimisation though). Motorstorm 2 and Resistance 2 will tap a lot more of this performance.

This transition is happening because the PS3's design is based on radically more modern and different technology. Things which run on the Cell's PPE nowadays will have to be split and moved over to the SPUs (which results into huge performance gains), once that's accomplished there are endless oppertunities for optimisations and enhancements.



There's no spin with regard to SPU potential, there are enough research documents to back up games developer claims. However these research studies are able to concentrate on specific tasks. The amount of code and functions within a game engine are huge, devs just can't do it all at once assuming their game engine is suitable for extensive multi-threading at all (if not it's better to start over from scratch, as future PCs will also see more and more cores added). The first multi-CPU consumer desktop computer was released in 1995, called the BeBox (inspired by how the very asynchronously operating Amiga computer handled multimedia back in the 80s). Sadly PC technology took until 2005 to advance towards similar technology advancements (and Windows, MacOS and Linux all handle this far less efficiently than BeOS did even back then).

For instance a research team can solely concentrate on Artificial Intelligence and show the Cell is suitable for this use like no other consumer CPU currently available, however AI is just one part of a game engine and it may make more sense to first get the physics engine onto the SPUs, which is very beneficial for many games or have audio processing done by the Cell's SPUs which is relatively an easy thing to do, etc.

Because it has so much potential? But seriously the delays are getting annoying. On the other hand it has made great strides since November 2006.

It did have 1 really good game In November 2007 (Resistance). Now I have the problem that there is too much to play.

Yes it still has a worse gaming library than the 360 but the difference is rapidly diminishing.

Multiplatform games were much worse on PS3 than on 360 now they are on par.

The media functionalities and Playstation Store etc. greatly improved.

So you cannot say that nothing happens. Sony seriously closed the functional and gaming gap to the 360 and still has many advantages (Quality, BluRay,...).

And developers like Insomniac who release one awesome game a year prove that the development for PS3 cannot be so hard. But yes it all is a bit slower than expected.

I would not dispute any of your points mike B sony did put a lot into it. I just wonder for the ordinary joe like myself is time on their side.
they are outselling 360 weekly but not by enough to catch them in the next 12 months at least; going on current trends.

just to put some meaning to my earlier points; when gears came out it really set the 360 apart from the older consoles like ps2 and x box and you knew this was different.

since the ps3 launch nothing has come out imo that sets it apart from the 360 so far. I know mgs4 is due for launch in the next couple of weeks and the 13 minute trailer I seen looked really good but it is may 08 and by the end of this year 360 will be going into it;s fourth year.

sony have said this will be a ten year project but realisticly speaking will any console in this day and age be able to stay at the cutting edge that long.

Famine said: Like I said, two likely scenarios, new model or old model. Either way, you're not going to make Microsoft seem all-so innocent in this one, and either way, it's a RRoD. I'm not disputing that PS3s don't break, but I am disputing your notion of there being "far more reports" of PS3s breaking compared to the 360, and if you won't acknowledge what you said, then there is no point in me wasting my time with you. If an update breaks the PS3, it's Sony's fault. If the software breaks the console, that's Rockstar's fault. We didn't get reports of software updates breaking the PS3, which again is what you hinted at, rather the game itself was breaking the PS3. Now you are saying that I am making assumptions on the new 360 models, when all this time I've been talking about the RRoD in general. Haven't heard the newer models of 360s breaking down? Here: http://forums.xbox.com/17947417/ShowPost.aspx Enjoy!

You realize that the guy made no comment about when he bought his Xbox 360 right?

I haven't attempted to make Microsoft look innocent at all, thats why I created the thread about an Rrod at GDC.  You keep paraphrasing me, trying to imply that I'm saying there are far more reports of PS3's breaking than 360's breaking in perpetuaty, when all I'm saying is that recently, that has been the case.

I'm going to let you in on something you apparently are not aware of.  Every bit of software devs release for a console goes through a manufacturers approval process.  What that means is, Sony saw the code for the final release of GTAIV, approved it, then sent the game into production and release.

Sony are completely responsible for any PS3's that brick because of GTAIV, just as they are responsible for consoles that brick because of firmware updates. 

 

DMeisterJ said: A catchy name for 360? I have one... *excuse my language* XBOX three-shitty? Is that catchy enough?

Your wit and originality continue to astound me

Keep up the good work  

 

MikeB said: MeowTheMouse said: what heavy hitters ur talking about ? all they got is GTA/MGS4 dont bring me those games that no one knows shit about LBP etc.. Probably high pofile full sequels to PS2 games like Gran Turismo, The Getaway, Jak & Daxter, SOCOM, Tekken, God of War, Twisted Metal, Killzone, Team ICO project, etc. Square Enix games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, etc. (Especially crucial for fast sales in Japan) New exclusive efforts to be published by Sony. like White Knight Story, Eight Days, LittleBigPlanet, Afrika, Eyedentify, The Agency, Heavy Rain, etc. Sony and partners are taking their time to release these games, many of them highly anticipated games, this also allows the game engines to mature for modern technology and allow for more game polish. Microsoft has played all their big proven aces, of the big XBox games only Star wars (multi-platform) and Fable haven't received 360 sequels yet. Next to this there's Banjo (looks dissapointing to me, IMO the good old 360 launch game Kameo looked so much fun and interesting) and Gear of War 2 (most shooter fans interested in a 360, probably already bought a 360 due to Halo or the first game, others will just wait for the PC version). Microsoft might buy themselves some exclusivity on multi-platform games to try to slow the PS3's progress.

You realize that the Xbox had no big games outside of Ninja Gaiden, Halo and Fable right?  Of those, only one has had a sequel on the Xbox 360.  You listed new IP's as major sellers for the PS3, but failed to list the Xbox 360's equally quality-ridden line-up of new exclusive IP.

Then you list games like Kingdom Hearts, which is looking very likely to be Wii-exclusive, and Star Ocean, which could go either way as potential saviours for the PS3 in Japan, even though that continent is a one-console region that has already chosen the Wii.

You also listed Team ICo's project as a high-profile game, even though ICO's games (whilst critical-darlings) never sell well.  Finally, you listed Killzone, which was horrible on PS2, and has just had it's sequel delayed to the dead months of next year amid a climate of strong rumours of development issues and budget blowouts.

But the worst spin was that comment about playing all their proven aces.  You act as though the Xbox 360 will have no more big hits, but that new IP will save the PS3.  Look at Gears of War, the most successful new IP of this generation.  Look at the fact Xbox 360 sales still got a sizeable boost around Halo3's release despite your assertion that most people probably bought the console for GeoW.  Then look at the fact that recent iterations of God of War and Socom haven't sold nearly as well as Fable did.

You present a very one-sided argument MikeB. 

 

MikeB said: @ starcraft The PS3 ISN'T relatively or significantly outperforming the Xbox 360. Coming off a marketshare victory over Microsoft of around 50%, Sony is now outselling the Xbox 360 by a few tens of thousands of units a week. Like I said the PS3 outsold the 360 1.85 million comparing equal timeframes by March 2008. Currently outselling the 360 by about 40K to 50K worldwide a week on average during slow months I think is considerable. This trend is likely to continue considering the release of MGS4. This all at a higher entry price and more headstart months for the 360 for Europe and many other countries around the world and Microsoft releasing all their big name XBox sequels including Halo 3 early on within the console's lifecycle. Holiday sales will push larger volumes. ony had to make a series of MASSIVE price cuts they never anticipated making. No, they were anticipating price cuts. The entry price of the PS3 is about twice of that of the 360 in Europe. A pricecut for the end of this year is not off the table. The tech in the PS3 is already outdated. The latest PC games look considerably better than anything on any console. Game engines haven't been fully adapted for the PS3 yet, but already games like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue or even a cheap PSN title like Super Stardust HD are amongst the technically most impressive games currently available for any platform. It has already become completely clear that any tech advantage the PS3 has over the Xbox 360 in the real world will be negligible. Most developers claim the opposite, there's far more potential in the PS3. But legacy game engines need to be adapted. These game engines are huge and many of them outdated in terms of design, it's a huge task. But it will be done. Hell, the biggest multi-platform game of the generation from highly talented developers was technically inferior (lower resolution) on the PS3 (GTAIV). GTA IV was designed on the 360 (which makes sense considering mature dev kits were out for the 360 well before PS3 dev kits), but the PS3 version looks better overall. There will be bigger games for the PS3. http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/400360.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/400PS3.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/burger1.png (360) http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/burger2.png (PS3) http://www.cupidity.f9.co.uk/b3da008.jpg (360) http://www.cupidity.f9.co.uk/b3da009.jpg (PS3) (Source: Beyond3D) The PS3 version has a more steady framerate, less loading times and best of all far less pop-in issues. Please don't try to imply Sony haven't been pushing the PS3 as hard as they possibly can. They have been hyping games YEARS in advance (Killzone 2 anyone Killzone 2 looks awesome already. Yes, future games will even push the PS3 hardware much further.

Firstly, I realize you've played some fancy games with launches, but the Xbox 360's lead over the PS3 is GREATER now than it was when the PS3 launched.  Your assertion that the PS3 has outsold the Xbox 360 through MArch 2008 is therefore fundamentally incorrect.  Even were it not, you must realize that third-party developers are not going to look at the situation and go "lets forgive Sony's smaller userbase because they launched late."  All these devs will see is a larger userbase on the Xbox 360, making it easier for Microsoft to buy exclusives than for Sony.  In the event that noone moneyhats anyone, ALL games will go either multiplatform or PC/Xbox 360 exclusive (due to ease and cheapness of development).

I addresed your blatantly incorrect assertion that Microsoft has released all its heavy-hitters in my last post, but I will add this.  We have already seen from many instances, most recently the launch of GTAIV, that PS2 owners are upgrading in droves to the Wii and Xbox 360.  Every time this happens, Sony loses a customer and future revenue, and Microsoft or Nintendo gain one.  

Don't pretend that Sony anticipated cutting $100 ($200 if you include the official period after the 20gb was cut but the 80gb hadn't been announced) of the PS3 entry price in the first year.  They had to CUT OUT "CORE" FEATURES just to bring the cuts into the peripheral ranges of 'affordability.'  They were forced into cuts plain and simple.  If Sony want to make money off the PS3 (given most recent quarterly results), they will have to limit themselves to no price cut or a very small price cut at the end of the year, and they will have to do so without the sales, mindshare and thirdparty momentum that they have been used to enjoying in the industry for over ten years.

Again with GTAIV you seem to be trying to sell the line Sony has been about the PS3 having potential.  The problem is, their is no evidence (whether technical or anecdotal) that this potential will be anything significantly above and beyond what the Xbox 360 is capable of.  Even if it was, this generation proves more than any other that the broader market won't pay a premium for graphics.  Furthermore, you imply that the PS3 will get better looking games, but that (contrary to EVERYTHING we know about past generations and consoles in general) the Xbox 360 and Wii won't get the same.

As for GTAIV, you'll find the two games have near identical marks on Gamerankings and Metacritic, with some credible review sources ranking the Xbox 360 version higher. 

 

shitbox 3-fixme haha

With the amount of trolling in here and most threads you'd think more threads would be locked and people banned.

@ Starcraft

The 360 was hailed its first year for selling so fast. Looking at the latest sold to retailers figures:

360: 19 million PS3: 12.85 million by the end of March Difference: 6.15 million

The PS3 sold faster in April and May worldwide, so deduct at the very least 200K. That would then translate to about 5.95 million worth of difference.

Did the 360 really only sell less than 6 million its first year on the market in North America, Europe, Japan, 9 months in Colombia, Mexico and South Korea, 8 months in Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore and fewer months for Chile, India, South Africa, etc all combined?

Sound to be a little on the low end to me...