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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Uncanny Valley - A future problem for gaming?

I always thought of the "uncanny valley" as when something looks so realistic that any slight detail of "non-realistic" aspects becomes an eyesore. Either way, I don't believe it'll be a problem. I for one, don't really care about photo realism, nor will I nitpick about the uncanny valley. Just bring me gameplay, art style and a solid technical effort.



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Rath said:
windbane said:
Rath said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
I think you guys are using the term wrong. It's a continuum. As something looks more human, it looks "better," until a point, then there's a giant dip where it's super disgusting, THAT is the valley. After that, it gets better. Getting good enough to get back out of the valley is the hard part.

We've had shit in the valley for a very very long time. It's disgusting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

Isn't that what I said?

Its what I meant at least.

 

@Music. I haven't actually watched Beowulf to be honest. Doesn't it use motion capture however? That is something games cannot fully do.


Huh? Of course they can. Sports games have used them for years. Heavenly Sword was completely motion captured, and so was Uncharted.


 No because full motion capture would be entirely linear. They can use motion capture for individual animations but they cannot use motion capture in the way films use it.


Dude, all the movements were acted out in motion capture. I watched the "making of" special features of both games.



windbane said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Thus far I haven't yet felt it for games.
I did for movies: I find hyperthyroid eyes in Toy Story and other movies with CG disturbing, and Shrek's characters' skin creepy.
I find real human-like robots' skin, mouth, eyes and hair creepy too.

ok, apparently this guy talks about it with movies. I don't know anyone else that had the same complaints about those movies. Toy Story was a bunch of toys...they weren't even trying to look real. They were moving toys, Whatever. I don't find uncanny valley to be a universal thing with people like, say, human attraction seems to favor certain attributes because of biological factors. I think some people are bothered by certain things, but in general it's not an issue.


Yes, I had not seen the clip yet, so I was talking about my very personal experience, and really Uncanny Valley is a very subjective phenomenon (although Kant would say that EVERY phenomenon is subjective ).

I did mention eyes in Toy Story because it started this particular thing and after it those disturbing eyes found their way in lots other CG movies. Regarding skin, when it falls in the dreaded valley it looks like either covered with a bad, not heavy, but "flat" make-up, or worse belonging to an embalmed corpse.

@famousringo: now I've seen the clip and I find it creepy for the same reasons you mention.

 

One thing I should add: when you play a game, immersion made possible by good games adds realism in different ways from pure graphic accuracy, so I think that it should be possible to avoid Uncanny Valley.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Heavenly Sword graphics are not that realistic. The characters in it are so clearly non-human that the uncanny valley wouldn't apply.


Possibly true, I didn't say that they looked that realistic but that good. If a more artistic approach removes Uncanny valley problems I wouldn't have a problem with it.



sinha said:
makingmusic476 said:
Did you guys see the original tech demo for Heavy Rain? Talk about uncanny valley material. Ugh.
The animations make the entire thing very awkward and down right freaky, imo.  The eyes don't help either. 

Eyes?  I think the eyes look fine.  The freaky part is the entire mouth area, it just doesn't move right when she talks.


 Yeah, the facial animations were the main problem.  The eyes stick out a bit to me at least.



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Wow the Heavy Rain demo is awesome. I heard a game based on this technology just entered development. Want!!



More relistic graphics are good, they contribute to how real a gaming experience feels, combine real world graphics with complete motion sense and you have the ultimate game.



Heavy Rain is actually a 2 year old tech demo. The game itself will not have the characters, settings or level of detail as the tech demo.

The first real instance of Uncanny Valley seen in video games came about in sports titles just a few years ago (2005 I think). The players would animate very well, skin texture was decent but the eyes were dead. The didn't move, blink, etc... It gave the appearance of playing a bunch of zombies.

We're still another graphical generation away before it becomes a valid problem.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Ha! This makes me think of the episode of 30 Rock when Tracey wants to make a pornographic video game. Look, if you can get "immersed" in something like that without being creeped out, more power to you, windbane and whoever else thinks it's not a big deal.

Uncanny Valley effects some people more than others , but I think it effects everyone on a subconscious level to some degree. It's almost impossible for it not to be a little jarring if you're truly engrossed in a story, but some subtle inhuman visual or character flaw makes any empathy you could have, feel unnatural. It's not a matter of personal taste in visuals. It's a matter of becoming emotionally committed to a piece of work, only to have your suspension of disbelief constantly shattered. Thus, causing the matrix to collapse, because humans can't except things that do not sit with their views on reality.



makingmusic476 said:
sinha said:
makingmusic476 said:
Did you guys see the original tech demo for Heavy Rain? Talk about uncanny valley material. Ugh.
The animations make the entire thing very awkward and down right freaky, imo. The eyes don't help either.

Eyes? I think the eyes look fine. The freaky part is the entire mouth area, it just doesn't move right when she talks.


Yeah, the facial animations were the main problem. The eyes stick out a bit to me at least.


I found disturbing both eyes and mouth, eyes looked as those of a down girl that had badly executed plastic surgery, the mouth looked catatonic.

OTOH I found body motion quite well done, she moved really like a very shy and clumsy amateur actress at an audition.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!