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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - What was Microsoft thinking when it got into videogames?

2000

 Bill Gates: Look at this shit load of money, what should we do?
Other Guy #1: hey dude, hey why dont we uh make a game machine or something
Other guy#2: sure, will it play weed
Bill Gates: Idiot, but good idea, lets make one

2005

Bill Gates: We've lost billions but like what should we do
Other Guy#1: do it again dude, woah look at my hand
BG: Sure
Douche: what about windows vista

BG: Screw it, we can fix it later with service packs, just get the xbox done and done fast

Douche: What about quality control, testing, more time to design the hardware right

BG: Nah, rush it for this christmas

Douche: For f*** sake



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Joelcool7 said:

Microsoft is supportive of Nintendo's DS and also of the Nintendo Wii because Nintendo is moving further out of Microsoft market space. Nintendo is sticking to games and only games and not intrested in producing a multimedia center to compete with the PC. But Sony is intent on bringing its PlayStation brand to the computer as has been stated many times.


 Microsoft was very supportive in the beginning...mainly because they thought the Wii was a joke. But once the Wii started kicking their ass all they have done is talked trash and apparently from the rumor mill try and rip them off with the yet announced X-Mote.



Currently playing: Okami (Wii), The World Ends With You (DS), and Shenmue (Dreamcast)

Godot said:
Joelcool7 said:

Umm I will say this I have an uncle who works in Microsoft's seattle facility. he told me why Microsoft entered the console industry. He stated it was because Sony was eyeing making themselves an OS and making PlayStation into a home computer brand. As PS3 is more like a computer then the last console and Sony is increasingly eyeing the computer industry for its future.

So Microsoft took the initiative first by supporting the Sega DreamCast with a Microsoft XP OS as well as helping them get their console online etc...etc... However DreamCast wasn't doing its job in distrupting the industry. So Microsoft jumped in to stop Sony and cut their line of support.

Sony's entertainment division at the time was heavily funded by PlayStation which brought in record profits on a yearly basis. Microsoft had to prevent Sony from entering into its own market space, so good old Bill Gates looked into entering the industry.

First Mr.Gates looked into buying Nintendo out right and bringing the GameCube out under the Microsoft label. However the deal never saw actual implementation and Microsoft instead quickly hired former Sega execs etc...etc.. to put together the X-Box.

The X-Box launched with pretty much no first party support. Microsoft invested over 4-billion dollars in losses during the origional X-Box to ensure it succeeded. it purchased Bungie , Rare and many other studios to bulster its first party capabilities.

Microsoft had a three phase plan in terminating Sony. Entering the industry with the X-Box , using the second console to break Sony's grip on the industry and using the third console to decimate and remove Sony as a potential threat.

Microsoft is supportive of Nintendo's DS and also of the Nintendo Wii because Nintendo is moving further out of Microsoft market space. Nintendo is sticking to games and only games and not intrested in producing a multimedia center to compete with the PC. But Sony is intent on bringing its PlayStation brand to the computer as has been stated many times.

This makes Sony a major threat to Microsoft's stability and marketshare. If Sony entered the computer industry using its movie, music and game properties it could easily deliver a knock out punch to Apple and severly damage Microsoft.

So Microsoft is acting in its best interest. My best bet is that after the next console Microsoft will merge its X-Box label onto PC. Switching to an X-Box service on computers rather then an actual X-Box console.

 


Well, that seems to make a lot of sense. I would like to add one thing. Xbox is basically a short for Direct X Box. Their other intent is to use the Xbox as a way to support Direct X and encourage developper to develop games for both the PC and the Xbox. By doing so, they try to stop the drift that has happened to PC gamer towards the consoles. They also are reinforcing their dominance in the OS market by ensuring gaming thrive on Windows.

 

The other front MS is attacking is online. We are seeing a lot of synergy lately with everything called live. Live has basically replaced MSN and its their way to attack Google which is one the biggest threat to their dominance. Their worst fear I believe is for Google to make an operating system that would compete with Windows. That's why they are attacking them on their on field.

I believe Microsoft is a cancer to the computer industry. I needs to be destroyed in other for us to get what we really deserve (no shitty Windows Vista, no stupid docx that aren't compatible with anything, no protected media path, and so on). MS in gaming really isn't as bad as it is in the other fields as it can't use their "Embrace, extend and extinguish" strategy has much but still supporting them is supporting Windows.


I don't think MS needs to be destroyed, but their OS industry needs some serious competition.  Right now, If Apple wanted to license their OS to other hardware vendors, they could.  I have seen OSX on Non-mac PCs, with a few hacks to make it happen.

 

Unfortunately, Apple is not after major market share for their computer Industry anymore.   I guess having the iPod is enough for them.  I wish they would try to put up some serious competition to Windows Vista to force MS to overhaul it and make it better.  Right now, the way the PS3 and 360 are competing, it's really an excellent situation.  Both companies have to better themselves.  Sony had to make the thing cheaper and MS had to deal with their HW problems.

 

I think when MS entered, it wasn't going to be as easy to kick Sony out as they thought.  Sony stupidly entered the power arms race with MS.  MS was not thinking the Wii would really take off when the "Wii60" claims were made. 

 

Oh well, let the companies go through their drama.  I'm playing both the 360 and PS3 and enjoying them both. 



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

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all i have to say is one thing: cha-ching $$



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botong said:

So they ended up making a $4b loss on the Xbox. Now, some people may think that this was acceptable to MS for the sake of getting their foot in the door, but I can't believe it. Can anyone name another company that took such a huge loss to enter an uncertain new market, in any industry? I'd really like to know if something like this happened before - if it has, it could change the picture I've been describing up to this point.


Certainly, that's just the way it is when you enter a new market. For example, Amazon.com was entering a new market (new industry altogether actually) when it choose to do e-commerce. These are Amazon.com various Net Income (Loss) since it came into existance. (obtained from http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsAnnual)

1995 - $(303)1996 - $(6,246)1997 - $(31,020)1998 - $(124,546)1999 - $(719,968)2000 - $(1,411,273)2001 - $(567,277)2002 - $(149,132)2003 - $35,282

That's roughly a $3 billion dollar loss and that was a complete new industry. $4 billion is sustainable loss for MS or else they wouldn't have pumped that much into it. They're in it for the longhaul.




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Joelcool7 said:

Umm I will say this I have an uncle who works in Microsoft's seattle facility. he told me why Microsoft entered the console industry. He stated it was because Sony was eyeing making themselves an OS and making PlayStation into a home computer brand. As PS3 is more like a computer then the last console and Sony is increasingly eyeing the computer industry for its future.

So Microsoft took the initiative first by supporting the Sega DreamCast with a Microsoft XP OS as well as helping them get their console online etc...etc... However DreamCast wasn't doing its job in distrupting the industry. So Microsoft jumped in to stop Sony and cut their line of support.

Sony's entertainment division at the time was heavily funded by PlayStation which brought in record profits on a yearly basis. Microsoft had to prevent Sony from entering into its own market space, so good old Bill Gates looked into entering the industry.

First Mr.Gates looked into buying Nintendo out right and bringing the GameCube out under the Microsoft label. However the deal never saw actual implementation and Microsoft instead quickly hired former Sega execs etc...etc.. to put together the X-Box.

The X-Box launched with pretty much no first party support. Microsoft invested over 4-billion dollars in losses during the origional X-Box to ensure it succeeded. it purchased Bungie , Rare and many other studios to bulster its first party capabilities.

Microsoft had a three phase plan in terminating Sony. Entering the industry with the X-Box , using the second console to break Sony's grip on the industry and using the third console to decimate and remove Sony as a potential threat.

Microsoft is supportive of Nintendo's DS and also of the Nintendo Wii because Nintendo is moving further out of Microsoft market space. Nintendo is sticking to games and only games and not intrested in producing a multimedia center to compete with the PC. But Sony is intent on bringing its PlayStation brand to the computer as has been stated many times.

This makes Sony a major threat to Microsoft's stability and marketshare. If Sony entered the computer industry using its movie, music and game properties it could easily deliver a knock out punch to Apple and severly damage Microsoft.

So Microsoft is acting in its best interest. My best bet is that after the next console Microsoft will merge its X-Box label onto PC. Switching to an X-Box service on computers rather then an actual X-Box console.

 


That's pretty interesting, and I think it confirms what most people think Microsoft's intentions were. But the question is, was it ever a good idea? I mean, suppose MS never brought out the Xbox. Would Sony be any closer to making the PS a home computer brand? I don't think so. The PSX was (I think) meant to be to be the first step in making the PS into an all-purpose media centre which could potentially replace the PC. And it failed, and that failure had nothing to do with Microsoft's efforts. So what would be different if MS hadn't bothered making the Xbox at all?

And if MS seriously thinks that Sony could deliver a knockout blow to Apple if they felt like it, they're mad. Isn't it working out the other way round? Apple is the real threat to MS's marketshare (and they're eating into it right now). It just seems to me like MS were wasting their time when they decided that they had to beat the Playstation - they should have been trying to beat the iPod, as that really has hurt them. Of course, I am writing all this with the benefit of hindsight, but I think it shows that we can't assume that MS really is as farsighted as many people seem to think they are. I mean, take that three point plan mentioned above (enter the industry, break Sony's grip, decimate Sony). How likely is it to work out now? If it really was their plan, that ultimate goal looks to be as far away as ever.

 Joelcool7, do you know if MS really planned for that kind of loss on the original Xbox? Because I think it took them by surprise, because they weren't expecting to have to make that early price cut, which in turn would have affected their entire revenue forecast. I'd be grateful if you have any more info.



FinalEvangelion said:
Godot said:
Joelcool7 said:

Umm I will say this I have an uncle who works in Microsoft's seattle facility. he told me why Microsoft entered the console industry. He stated it was because Sony was eyeing making themselves an OS and making PlayStation into a home computer brand. As PS3 is more like a computer then the last console and Sony is increasingly eyeing the computer industry for its future.

So Microsoft took the initiative first by supporting the Sega DreamCast with a Microsoft XP OS as well as helping them get their console online etc...etc... However DreamCast wasn't doing its job in distrupting the industry. So Microsoft jumped in to stop Sony and cut their line of support.

Sony's entertainment division at the time was heavily funded by PlayStation which brought in record profits on a yearly basis. Microsoft had to prevent Sony from entering into its own market space, so good old Bill Gates looked into entering the industry.

First Mr.Gates looked into buying Nintendo out right and bringing the GameCube out under the Microsoft label. However the deal never saw actual implementation and Microsoft instead quickly hired former Sega execs etc...etc.. to put together the X-Box.

The X-Box launched with pretty much no first party support. Microsoft invested over 4-billion dollars in losses during the origional X-Box to ensure it succeeded. it purchased Bungie , Rare and many other studios to bulster its first party capabilities.

Microsoft had a three phase plan in terminating Sony. Entering the industry with the X-Box , using the second console to break Sony's grip on the industry and using the third console to decimate and remove Sony as a potential threat.

Microsoft is supportive of Nintendo's DS and also of the Nintendo Wii because Nintendo is moving further out of Microsoft market space. Nintendo is sticking to games and only games and not intrested in producing a multimedia center to compete with the PC. But Sony is intent on bringing its PlayStation brand to the computer as has been stated many times.

This makes Sony a major threat to Microsoft's stability and marketshare. If Sony entered the computer industry using its movie, music and game properties it could easily deliver a knock out punch to Apple and severly damage Microsoft.

So Microsoft is acting in its best interest. My best bet is that after the next console Microsoft will merge its X-Box label onto PC. Switching to an X-Box service on computers rather then an actual X-Box console.

 


Well, that seems to make a lot of sense. I would like to add one thing. Xbox is basically a short for Direct X Box. Their other intent is to use the Xbox as a way to support Direct X and encourage developper to develop games for both the PC and the Xbox. By doing so, they try to stop the drift that has happened to PC gamer towards the consoles. They also are reinforcing their dominance in the OS market by ensuring gaming thrive on Windows.

 

The other front MS is attacking is online. We are seeing a lot of synergy lately with everything called live. Live has basically replaced MSN and its their way to attack Google which is one the biggest threat to their dominance. Their worst fear I believe is for Google to make an operating system that would compete with Windows. That's why they are attacking them on their on field.

I believe Microsoft is a cancer to the computer industry. I needs to be destroyed in other for us to get what we really deserve (no shitty Windows Vista, no stupid docx that aren't compatible with anything, no protected media path, and so on). MS in gaming really isn't as bad as it is in the other fields as it can't use their "Embrace, extend and extinguish" strategy has much but still supporting them is supporting Windows.


I don't think MS needs to be destroyed, but their OS industry needs some serious competition. Right now, If Apple wanted to license their OS to other hardware vendors, they could. I have seen OSX on Non-mac PCs, with a few hacks to make it happen.

 

Unfortunately, Apple is not after major market share for their computer Industry anymore. I guess having the iPod is enough for them. I wish they would try to put up some serious competition to Windows Vista to force MS to overhaul it and make it better. Right now, the way the PS3 and 360 are competing, it's really an excellent situation. Both companies have to better themselves. Sony had to make the thing cheaper and MS had to deal with their HW problems.

 

I think when MS entered, it wasn't going to be as easy to kick Sony out as they thought. Sony stupidly entered the power arms race with MS. MS was not thinking the Wii would really take off when the "Wii60" claims were made.

 

Oh well, let the companies go through their drama. I'm playing both the 360 and PS3 and enjoying them both.


Yeah I agree, I went too far. Let's say that they need to have their asses kicked and some competition in the OS market. Apple isn't particularly better in my opinion as they have an even less open vision of the world than Microsoft. They want you to buy their computer with their OS and their software while listening to music you bought with iTunes on your Ipod. However, I have to admit that their products are of really good quality (but more expensive). Seriously, I would love to see some new blood in that market. A monopoly can only thwarth innovation.

 

I agree that we need to let them go with their drama but in the end none of them are doing badly.



How many cups of darkness have I drank over the years? Even I don't know...

 

ymeaga1n said:
botong said:

So they ended up making a $4b loss on the Xbox. Now, some people may think that this was acceptable to MS for the sake of getting their foot in the door, but I can't believe it. Can anyone name another company that took such a huge loss to enter an uncertain new market, in any industry? I'd really like to know if something like this happened before - if it has, it could change the picture I've been describing up to this point.


Certainly, that's just the way it is when you enter a new market. For example, Amazon.com was entering a new market (new industry altogether actually) when it choose to do e-commerce. These are Amazon.com various Net Income (Loss) since it came into existance. (obtained from http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsAnnual)

1995 - $(303)1996 - $(6,246)1997 - $(31,020)1998 - $(124,546)1999 - $(719,968)2000 - $(1,411,273)2001 - $(567,277)2002 - $(149,132)2003 - $35,282

That's roughly a $3 billion dollar loss and that was a complete new industry. $4 billion is sustainable loss for MS or else they wouldn't have pumped that much into it. They're in it for the longhaul.

Fair point. Although even so, Amazon's initial losses are still a long way off from MS's losses on the Xbox. From the figures you show above, you can see that Amazon turned a corner in 2001 and started reducing their losses, so they capped their losses at $3bn. Whereas MS made that $4bn loss on the Xbox, plus they've been making big losses on the 360 which they've only managed to stop this year. And whenever they introduce a new console, they'll make big intital losses on that console too. Which is the one of the big differences with the Amazon situation - once Amazon incurred that intial loss, that was it. They're not going to have to do it all over again in a few years' time.

The other big difference with Amazon is that, yes, they took a big gamble - e-commerce might never have taken off, and they wouldn't have made their money back. But if the gamble did work, they'd have the market all to themselves, or at the very least be the market leaders. Whereas MS took that huge loss to break into a highly competitive industry - they were never going to have the same kind of payoff as Amazon, unless they managed to drive Sony or Nintendo out.  And they're nowhere near being even market leaders. So I think my argument stands.



"Hey, look the videogames, is an industry growing up pretty fast, if we want a piece of the cake, this is the time".



End of 2011 (made 02/01/11) 
Wii: 99.453 m
Xbox 360: 67.837 m 
Ps 3: 60.726 m

Best Games/Serie of the Generation

No need for any more comments á la "they had too much cash" or "let's make billions off of consoles".

Check out Joelcool7's excellent long post (and mine) above if you truly want to know what the reason for MS was to enter the console market.

Also, the conclusion is that it was a wise decision, despite the losses so far.