Oy. If you don't think Sony has been weakened this generation, you need to take off the blinders. Nintendo has supplanted Sony as the dominant console of this generation and the Wii is walking away with previously Sony marketshare. Before the PS3, Sony had created two home consoles and annihilated the competition with both of them, especially in Europe. Now, they're fighting Microsoft for a distant second place behind the Wii.

Considering how Sony is much more of a threat to Microsoft than Nintendo is, Microsoft can't be that unhappy at their market position. Sure, they would prefer to be first but considering how badly they screwed up the 360, they're in a good position to enter the market in 2010 or 2011 with a new console and improved marketshare.

As for profitibility, I don't think MS is in the worst shape this generation. Sony is continuing to lose money on their gaming division while MS has pulled in ~$900m in the last fiscal year.

And who is talking about the PSP here? I was pretty sure this thread was about home consoles. It wasn't even part of my argument. 

But, go ahead and call me a fanboy if it makes you feel better.

Rocketpig - 1

Imperial - 0

It amazes me that Sony can be losing money on their gaming division despite the PS2 being a profit machine and the PSP finally starting to gain some good traction.  Those two devices are certainly bringing in very big profits.

incorrect

wii has only sold 1 mil less software than 360 so far this year even with a smaller userbase...and as soon as wii fit launches next week to over 1mil sales, they will be tied and then wii will pull ahead

i'm willing to make a bet that wii sells more software in Americas according to vgchartz in 2008 than 360 by at least 5 million

I don't think I'd go quite that far.  Don't forget, Nintendo has had two AAA exclusives so far in 2008 (and another due out shortly) and MS has had zero.

A price cut in August could do wonders, just before too human

They have barely had a price cut, so are just waiting for the right time before doing it. Sony is gaining momentum this year, but I still can't see them going this whole year without even a small price cut, so M$ will want to get in ahead of them. Their sales in the US aren't that bad, but they just need to improve brand name

 You don't get it.  Microsoft didn't get into the videogame wars to win.  They got into the videogame wars to take Sony out of the number 1 spot because they were afraid of Sony trying to monopolize the living room by making an entertainment hub... well like the PS3... but with a few more bells and whistles, as Microsoft believes such a roll should be played by Media PCs.

Would Microsoft like to be in first?  Yeah, why not.  However i'm sure they're happy with Nintendo being first who just wants to "make games" and won't try to conquerer the living room.

MS doesn't have a chance of winning anywhere.

Give up?

Yes, the thread is about the 360 / PS3 battle for 2nd, and if M$ could turn it's slowed down momentum around to beat the PS3 (at least for 2nd place console this gen). I should have titled the thread "how Microsoft can still come in 2nd in the console war". I think the PS3 will come in 2nd, but there are moves M$ could do to change that, at least in NA. 

I did mention the PSP but in context of the arguement. I was showing that Wii sells better than PS Brand & mS Brand combined in NA. It the past nintendo brand has sold better than the other two brands combined, but now it is just the wii doing it. And that statement is in line with the threads content. Yes this thread is about consoles, but in the thread it was said "Playstation Brand IS gaming" And another post said the PS Brand has been made weaker, and it was argued that the brand was not weaker.  I siad the brand HAS been hurt by the console war this gen. The PSP may have had growth as of late, and the PS2 is still strong for it's age. But the PS3 has hurt the entire brand, Sony's massive losses have not come from the PSP/PS2. The PS3 was expected to be another PS2 (I waited in line for 20 hours for a PS3). Not only has it not dominated the number one slot, but it has lost over half the gaming revenue Sony made over 10 years. In one year. In 18 months it's lost even more. 

So though it was not the OT, it is relevant to discuss comments made within the thread. 

I don't like your use of the term "weakened" it's slightly confusing and too psuedo but anyway. Yes Sony's competetivness has been severley limited due to the success of the Wii but that's beside the point i'm not disputing that , the way you posted it I interprited it as being the Wii "weakening" the PS3 to the extent that the 360 got some sort of advantage from it , hence my saying that " like the PS3 is the only console affected by the release of the Nintendo Wii".

 Your completley changing your tone , from "MS has already "won" to  "How badly they screwed up the 360". You keep on fogetting that market share means very little in an industry where profitability is the only thing that'll get you anywher, like I said before if MS want to make any money of the 360 then an early launch of the 720 is out of the question.

 Think again , with the $7 billion MS lost on the 360 900million is lauphable , it's far easier for Sony to make a profit on the PS3 than it is for MS to for the 360 also taking into consideration that PS3 helps HDTV sales( although not neccaserily Sony's HDTV's ) and was the key reason why sony won the format war.

  "to weaken an already weak Sony" it's incredibly confusing when you talk about Sony ( responsible for the PS3,PS2,PSP ) as opposed to talking about the individual products considering that's how most people do it , MS is only responsible for the 360 so it beats typing XBOX360 or 360 because "MS" is two letters.

 FANBOY , FANBOY , FANBOY * Breathe * Fanboy , Fanboy , Fanboy.... it does.

Okay, reading comprehension FTL.

To quote myself: "In some ways, MS has already "won"." Notice the quotations around "won". I then proceeded to talk about how Nintendo had weakened Sony's dominance, which is inadvertantly helping MS, who is more in direct competition with Sony than they are Nintendo. This isn't rocket science here. You're putting words into my mouth and twisting my points.

MS has not lost $7b on the 360. Please don't cite inaccurate information.

I didn't "change my tone", it's well-documented on this forum that I think MS has screwed up in several different ways, just like Sony. Nintendo is the only one that has done most things right this generation (other than that pathetic excuse they call an online system).

In short, don't go around calling people fanboys if you don't bother to take the time to try to understand what their actual point is.

PS. Your "Jump to Conclusions Mat" is already in the mail.