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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Banjo Kazooie - Nuts and Bolts Trailer!!!!!!!!

i dont wanna judge because i have not played it but that trailer disappointed me



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johnsobas said:
disolitude said:
 


 Yea and GTA4 is a rehash of 3, MGS4 is a rehash of 3, COD4 is a rehash of every other shooter in existance, Guitar hero is the same damn thing, the list could go on forever.  

Your examples are horrendous, first Resident Evil 4 and now Sonic?  These are natural, obvious progressions for the genre.  Mario or Sonic becoming a 3d platformers is obvious, Resident Evil dropping its flawed pre-rendered backround system with bad controls and terrible camera is an obvious progression for the genre.  

Banjo building, racing, and blowing up vehicles is not a damn natural progression.  It's not even the same fucking genre, not even close.  You aren't improving the platformer, you're simply not making a platformer anymore.  

The platformer could use a good game much more than the racing, flying, blowing up vehicles genre could.  This game has a new style, but it's not all that different from all the other games that 360 fans have been playing.  This isn't innovating as much as it is conforming. 


Resident Evil 4 did not have zombies... Try telling Sonic fans that 3d was a natural progression...



what?! i was actually looking to pick this up as i usually only get Ninty's platformers, but.... this isnt even a platformer?!!!!!

I'm not saying it'll be a bad game
its just... its sort of a letdown :(

@johnsobas
dude, i give u and Zen kudos
u guys know how to argue well
with good facts :)



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too much kart racing! I need more platformer!



I admit, it looks a bit clunky, but Im sure they will polish it for the November release.



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Stupid of them to "take on Mario" after the critical and commercial success of Galaxy.

The reason platformers are dead is because of 3D. You can't have twitch based gameplay with the main verb being "jump" in 3D. There's no depth perception. That's why 3D platformers are loaded with guns, why the camera is always so important, why "exploration and puzzle solving" has been stressed, even though none of this really has to do with traditional platformer gameplay; point-A to point-B, reflex-based level traversal.

Mario 64 was the first game to get it right, and the Banjo "trilogy" of Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie and DK64 were the best imitators. So that's probably why people are disappointed with this "innovation." They were hoping for a top quality Mario Galaxy imitator. Rare's best work has often been imitating Nintendo and taking it one or two steps forward.

And "innovation" in 3D platformers has usually failed because it just ends up imitating gameplay from other genres which do it better without the split focus on old platformer gameplay. In this case, Banjo is trying to go the user-created content route, and it may just look dumb in the face of Spore.

Rare has the ability to nail the pure platforming gameplay, to nail the open world exploration, and maybe even to nail the user-created vehicle stuff, but the question remains if wrapping all of those different styles together makes a better whole. And if they mess up on either the platforming or the vehicle stuff, the game is shot.

Now that 3D doesn't surprise anybody and it's acceptable again to do things in 2D, a hybrid 2D/3D platformer like Sonic Unleashed may have better luck commerically and critically than a game making the same old mistakes of 3D platforming.



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disolitude said:
johnsobas said:
disolitude said:
 


Yea and GTA4 is a rehash of 3, MGS4 is a rehash of 3, COD4 is a rehash of every other shooter in existance, Guitar hero is the same damn thing, the list could go on forever.

Your examples are horrendous, first Resident Evil 4 and now Sonic? These are natural, obvious progressions for the genre. Mario or Sonic becoming a 3d platformers is obvious, Resident Evil dropping its flawed pre-rendered backround system with bad controls and terrible camera is an obvious progression for the genre.

Banjo building, racing, and blowing up vehicles is not a damn natural progression. It's not even the same fucking genre, not even close. You aren't improving the platformer, you're simply not making a platformer anymore.

The platformer could use a good game much more than the racing, flying, blowing up vehicles genre could. This game has a new style, but it's not all that different from all the other games that 360 fans have been playing. This isn't innovating as much as it is conforming.


Resident Evil 4 did not have zombies... Try telling Sonic fans that 3d was a natural progression...


Nice argument, you're really getting somewhere.  Sonic going to 3d was natural progression, and it is also basically what caused the downfall of sonic for so long.  3D sonic games weren't as good as 2D ones, but sonic couldn't continue to be 2D on consoles.  If it was as simple as continuing in 2D they would have done that.  Many people liked 2D mario games better, some don't, but they are still the same style of gameplay just done in 3D rather than 2D.  

You are comparing something that stays true to the original in gameplay, the only thing that changed was the perspective and controls to something that completely changed the genre of the game, the core of the game is completely changed to the point it doesn't really resemble the past games anymore.  Mostly what is remaining is just the art style.

Ok resident evil 4 didn't have zombies, it doesn't make a difference in the argument. 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

I'd like to thank all the fanboys for turning this thread into a heaping bucket of FAIL. We couldn't have done it without you but we could have done without you.

@topic, it sure ain't banjo. But anything that involves building coolness gets at least a second look.



Ok, i honestly didn't like the trailer nor the direction it seems like the game is going. there is too much emphasis on vehicular mayhem than on platform exploration.

i thought it was quite comical that they ended the trailer by shooting at blocks that resembled mario. a little subliminal message there from rare to nintendo.



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johnsobas said:
disolitude said:
johnsobas said:
disolitude said:
 


Resident Evil 4 did not have zombies... Try telling Sonic fans that 3d was a natural progression...


Nice argument, you're really getting somewhere.  Sonic going to 3d was natural progression, and it is also basically what caused the downfall of sonic for so long.  3D sonic games weren't as good as 2D ones, but sonic couldn't continue to be 2D on consoles.  If it was as simple as continuing in 2D they would have done that.  Many people liked 2D mario games better, some don't, but they are still the same style of gameplay just done in 3D rather than 2D.  

You are comparing something that stays true to the original in gameplay, the only thing that changed was the perspective and controls to something that completely changed the genre of the game, the core of the game is completely changed to the point it doesn't really resemble the past games anymore.  Mostly what is remaining is just the art style.

Ok resident evil 4 didn't have zombies, it doesn't make a difference in the argument. 


If you don't see why zombie-less resident evil is a huge gameplay change...I don't think we can discuss this. I love RE4, its my 3rd fave game of all time...but it isn't resident evil. RE is scary, slow and nerve wrecking... RE4 was all guns blazing shooter fest with no zombies, snipers, weapon upgrades and buying/selling treasure side missions. If you told this to someone who just finished RE 2 in 1998...he would laugh at you and say you were high. So I think that comparison stands...

As far as Sonic going 3D, I didn't mean to compare it to Banjo 3 gameplay changes...but I put it as an example of change in gaming that made me whine like a baby, just like some people here who are crying about the new Banjo.