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Forums - Microsoft - In defense of Microsoft: A response to DMeisterJ

bbsin on 08 May 2008
starcraft said:
Still not entirely sure what on earth your talking about......
Are you implying that someone agreeing with me (as many in this thread have) suggests that they have some sort of personal affection for me, rather than a genuine interest in the substantive matter of the conversation.

If that is what you are implying, I must say it makes Sony fans seem rather insecure...

Hrmm? no. I was talking about the way that person talked about you in another post. Where he implied that you literally make his day whenever he reads your posts dealing Microsoft's defense. It has very little to do with the point that you're making in this thread (which I honestly have not completely read), it was just interesting that you had no idea you were talking to a hardcore follower. Like I said, 15th post bro. http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=26103&start=0 make sure to accept his friend invite or you'll break his heart

And I'm not sure where your "sony fan" comment is comming from.

epinefridis said:
Hey bbsin!
Our first and fifth game is the same!

that's neat. what game are you going to play next? I'm getting NG2

Looking for VGchartz members that play SSF4(PSN)??? Click here!

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Everstar on 08 May 2008

I aggree with what starcraft said in the first post.



Proud Owner of  a Wii and Xbox 360 and a PS3(When I get the money)

Slimebeast on 08 May 2008

Microsoft already won against Sony this generation.

* We, with a little help from Nintento, reduced the amount of Playstations from 115 million to 60 million, while increasing the amount of Xbos from 24 million to 50 million. Sony dominance is gone.

* We are profitable.

* We conquered the mindset of gamers and MS is now a reliable and true player in this business.

* We are now as cool as Sony. Today it's not only "hip" to own a Playstation brand, but an Xbox 360 is considered as "hip" as well.

* We are now the platform of choice for developers, securing exclusives for X360 and multi-platform games.

* We have are eyes set for the next gen. MS learned from it's mistakes this gen (hardware issues, timing of price drops for gaining momentum), and MS will launch an even stlonger XBOX 3, of course 1 year earlier than PS4. Next gen MS will beat Sony in every area (profitability, exlusives, consoles sales etc).



Final-Fan on 08 May 2008
starcraft said:
Final-Fan said:
I don't know if you should be so eager to think that epinefridis really does understand the situation instead of just agreeing with you because your opinion happens to match his.  He came right out and said that if he could he'd blind himself to all differing opinions.

More importantly, I notice that you responded to pretty much everyone except me.  Why is that?
Because I left the thread?

Anyway back now, I'll deal with your post below.
What I meant was that back when you did about half a dozen responses to various people you seem to have missed this one:
Final-Fan said:
starcraft said:
Final-Fan said:
2.  I guess I did incorrectly argue "PS3 vs. 360" instead of "360?"; however, (A) I think that your OP had serious overtones of that itself from which I took my cue; and (B) I don't think you've adequately made your case that the 360 is going to avoid entering a period of decline by tapping the current PS2 userbase.  The 360 is not the PS2 and price cuts didn't help the Gamecube or Xbox as much as I think you expect them to help the 360.
[...]
4.  "Redact ... to obscure or remove (text) from a document prior to publication or release" When I say that he did not "redact" any part of his OP, that means that he did not remove any incriminating material talking about (for instance) SW sales.  AFAIK the original portion of the OP is unaltered; his notes above it are merely a (large) annotation.  If you look carefully at that OP, even without the big flashy warnings it's clear that, although he uses GTA (SW) as a milestone, the subject of his question is HW.  The numbers he cites are HW.  The numbers he talks about are HW.  Why would it now follow that the numbers he is asking a question about would not be HW?

I said "if you look carefully", and it's painfully clear that very few took the time to do so with DMeisterJ's question on a very touchy subject -- exactly the kind of situation that calls for careful reading. Next time check your dictionary if you don't know the definition of a word.

Finally, as for the post you quoted, is he now not allowed to respond to other people who talk about SW? In fact, his initial response to the post in question talked about HW instead of SW, suggesting that DMeisterJ was concentrating his attention on HW discussion to the point that he didn't even notice that someone else had brought SW into it!

DMeisterJ's OP talked about HW. Not SW. SW got dragged into the fray by other people and DMeisterJ simply failed to jump on them like a rabid badger to keep the thread on topic ... until it became obvious that there were many people misinterpreting the OP, at which point he clarified, and re-clarified, and bolded and underlined etc. Shame on him?
2. I don't need to show that the Xbox 360 won't enter a decline because it will tap the PS2 userbase. All I need to show to prove my point is that it can do it beyond the present, and it is. It's sales are up year over year. Unless your suggesting that will change next week?

4. Of course he is allowed to respond to people that talk about software, am I not allowed to respond to his response? I didn't say that all of his statements were established in the OP of his thread did I?

Read the third line of my OP:

"But it culminated in DMeisterJ's thread"
2.  I'm not sure what you mean by "beyond the present".  Are you suggesting that DMeisterJ was insinuating something along the lines of "OMG 360 sales will die now that GTAIV is out!!! lol"?  Because I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant by "beginning of the end".  That would be "the end".

4.  Yes, but the POINT is that his post, which you quoted, was not (as you allege) an elaboration of the line of questioning of the OP, but rather a comment on the SW argument someone had made in the thread.  By jumping on that you deny him the right to pursue parallel lines of discussion apart from the OP subject.  He may have made SW arguments in other threads but this thread was explicitly limited to HW sales, despite the provocative title.

You can make any allegations you like about this being the apex of "360 fad will die soon" sentiment, but if you are now trying to refer to posts and discussions occurring in other threads then perhaps you ought to quote them instead.

Going back to the "failure of logic" premise of my first post, what I mean is that this:  "Many people often fail to realize that whenever a PS2 owner buys an Xbox 360, Sony normally loses a customer and future revenue, whilst Microsoft gains a customer and future revenue." makes no sense with respect to either the PS3 or the 360.  It makes perfect sense discussing the PS2 vs. PS3 situation, of which I think we are all well aware, but that has nothing to do with the current gen.  That is the mental association I made with the common "sunk costs" mistake.  (It is also valid when discussing the financial or overall fortunes of Sony, which is well outside the scope of these discussions.)  Half your OP revolves around this irrelevancy.
I didn't mean the post eleven minutes before the one asking why you didn't respond!  That would really be impatient.  (Oh, and since I've gotten burned before, please be gentle if I'm somehow overlooking a response you did make.)

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 08 May 2008

Slimebeast, are you a representative of Microsoft? Why the "we"?

Also, I think you should have used a different word than "reliable", it's just asking for trouble.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Torillian on 08 May 2008
Slimebeast said:

Microsoft already won against Sony this generation.

* We, with a little help from Nintento, reduced the amount of Playstations from 115 million to 60 million, while increasing the amount of Xbos from 24 million to 50 million. Sony dominance is gone.

* We are profitable.

* We conquered the mindset of gamers and MS is now a reliable and true player in this business.

* We are now as cool as Sony. Today it's not only "hip" to own a Playstation brand, but an Xbox 360 is considered as "hip" as well.

* We are now the platform of choice for developers, securing exclusives for X360 and multi-platform games.

* We have are eyes set for the next gen. MS learned from it's mistakes this gen (hardware issues, timing of price drops for gaining momentum), and MS will launch an even stlonger XBOX 3, of course 1 year earlier than PS4. Next gen MS will beat Sony in every area (profitability, exlusives, consoles sales etc).


 And they say Sony fans bank too much on future success.  Well atleast the guy is optimistic.



...

Mummelmann on 08 May 2008

Starcraft; are you seriously suggesting that only the PS2 buyers are buying Wii's and 360's? How about those who owned a N64, a Gamecube or an X-box?
Have they quit gaming alltogether or are they still using a console that abrubtly and completely lost support over night?
Every console sold is a loss for Sony, even PS3's. Sony cannot under any circumstance gain or win anything according to your reasoning, only loose.
You were a lot more reflected and clever before, this OP is just a very long piece of nonsense and only serves to prove that your feet are getting seriously warm underneath you on behalf of your console (which frankly is doing less than a stellar job at keeping the lead it gained over the year or so it "reigned supreme").
In its third year it is moving slower than the main competitor does in its second year without any of its most highly anticipated platform exclusives and a way higher pricetag. Even in its strongest markets (UK and NA) the 360 is loosing ground.
Compared to last gen I won't go so far as to say that the 360 is neither dead nor in trouble (it is beyond doubt that it'll perform better than the original box), but with your expectations it well and truly is.

And lol @slimebeast, I think you and starcraft are siblings, especially the first point cracks me up. The number of Playstations have gone from 210 to 230-240 million (220 to 250-260 million with the PSP) and Nintendo have not helped MS, they have buttsecksed them by surprise and utterly at that.



BCNR34 on 08 May 2008
Slimebeast said:

Microsoft already won against Sony this generation.

* We, with a little help from Nintento, reduced the amount of Playstations from 115 million to 60 million, while increasing the amount of Xbos from 24 million to 50 million. Sony dominance is gone.

* We are profitable.

* We conquered the mindset of gamers and MS is now a reliable and true player in this business.

* We are now as cool as Sony. Today it's not only "hip" to own a Playstation brand, but an Xbox 360 is considered as "hip" as well.

* We are now the platform of choice for developers, securing exclusives for X360 and multi-platform games.

* We have are eyes set for the next gen. MS learned from it's mistakes this gen (hardware issues, timing of price drops for gaining momentum), and MS will launch an even stlonger XBOX 3, of course 1 year earlier than PS4. Next gen MS will beat Sony in every area (profitability, exlusives, consoles sales etc).


 what the hell?

1. last time i checked, there are 42.72 million xboxes and aproximately 260 million playstations in the world.

2. 89m in a division that combines a number of things is hardly "profitable" you can't even prove they're profiting. esp after the EU price cut.

3. reliable? looooool

4. "cool"? what the hell does that matter? microsoft has never been "cool" anyways, everyone ive ever talked to hates microsoft as a company, largely due to failures to make decent software (and hardware).

5. you are not the "platform of choice" for developers, last time i checked, thats the wii.

6. how the hell could you possibly know MS is going to beat Sony next gen, when you know absoloutely nothing about how this gen is going to end, or how the next one is going to start? or the consoles being released? sony could pull another ps1 or ps2 and sell 100m consoles, where as microsoft is going to do what? pull an xbox? sell LESS than they will this generation? nintendo or sony will win the next generation, as well as this generation. microsoft will NEVER win a console race.



bbsin on 08 May 2008
Torillian said:
Slimebeast said:

Microsoft already won against Sony this generation. Yet we continue to cut our prices to hold back Sony from completely domininating us in other regions besides the U.S

* We, with a little help from Nintento, reduced the amount of Playstations from 115 million to 60 million, while increasing the amount of Xbos from 24 million to 50 million. Sony dominance is gone. We have a fortune teller with a crystalball that told us all of this.

* We are profitable.... Dispite the fact that we have 5 billion dollars to make back ever since we ventured into the console race to become porfitable in the first place. But who cares? it's about NOW not the past.

* We conquered the mindset of gamers even though we continue to sell less hardware than Sony in every major region in the world and MS is now a reliable and true player in this business.... If you forget about flimsy disk lens, XBL shortages and out massive amounts of hardware failures.

* We are now as cool as Sony. Today it's not only "hip" to own a Playstation brand, but an Xbox 360 is considered as "hip" as well... To hardcore gaming Americans.


* We are now the platform of choice for developers, securing exclusives for X360 and multi-platform games. Forget about 3rd party PS3 exclusives and the closing gap between multiplatform quality, that doesn't exist.

* We have are eyes set for the next gen. MS learned from it's mistakes this gen (hardware issues, timing of price drops for gaining momentum), and MS will launch an even stlonger XBOX 3, of course 1 year earlier than PS4. Next gen MS will beat Sony in every area (profitability, exlusives, consoles sales etc). This way, everyone will see the dominince we've shown against the PS3... that's right, by cutting off support for the great and profitable 360 and putting it towards a new console. Next time, things will be different for us and everything will stay the same for everyone else.


And they say Sony fans bank too much on future success. Well atleast the guy is optimistic.

You forgot to read the updated bold print in his post.

Looking for VGchartz members that play SSF4(PSN)??? Click here!

PooperScooper on 08 May 2008

slimbeast - you don't know how the RRoD will effect next gen consumers. They might be like "MS making another console? Psh no thanks I dont want to live through that RRoD again"