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Forums - Gaming - Do Next-Gen Games Give Us Next-Gen Gameplay?

Viper1 on 05 May 2008
Rock_on_2008 said:
timmah said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
No current consoles do not provide a next generation game play experience.
BTW: Wii motion control is not innovative. The PC mouse uses motion control. point and click

I hope you're kidding. Seriously, this is one of the most clueless statements I have seen in a while. Comparing the PC Mouse to the Wii-mote is asenine and rediculous. The mouse senses movement in a 2-d space, somewhat similar to an analog thumbstick. The Wii Remote senses movement in a 2-d space (with the IR, similar point & click to the mouse), but it goes much further than that. It senses movement in a 3-d space, angle, g-force, etc, to produce a gaming experience never before available on any platform. This is innovative by every definition of the word. You comparison is not thought out, reasoned in the post, or reflecting reality in any way, and is pure trolling.


Thank you for your opinion. To me there is motion control in PC Mouse. Well thanks for pointing out the difference.

So an analog control stick and buttons are motion control to you as well?  Anything with physical motion involved to you is motion control?

 

Well, let's put it in more discrete terms.  Dual 3D spatial gesture based input with IR.   Let's see your mouse do that.

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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TheRealMafoo on 05 May 2008

Before I get flamed for my last comment, I think the Wii has the most innovative game play this generation.

I just don’t think you need next gen hardware to achieve it. You could have played Wii Sports on a GameCube with the Wii innovations (the controller), and achieved the exact same experience.

Innovative game play and next gen game play are not the same thing,



Stockstar1138 on 05 May 2008

Ive only played the Wii twice, but it was refreshing and different, Wii Sports definately offered next gen gameplay.

I mostly game on the HD consoles and this has been one of my biggest pet peeves. its like its the same game from last gen. just bigger with better graphics. I do have to give props to R&C Future Tools of Destruction, they implimented Sixaxis controls very well, Oblivion felt very next gen to me when i played it, though it was very repititive. The other game that I have to say is next gen, and i know probably a lot of you wont agree is MLB 08: The Show. The ambiance of the game feels very lifelike, this wouldn't have been achieved last gen.



Reasonable on 05 May 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
Before I get flamed for my last comment, I think the Wii has the most innovative game play this generation.

I just don’t think you need next gen hardware to achieve it. You could have played Wii Sports on a GameCube with the Wii innovations (the controller), and achieved the exact same experience.

Innovative game play and next gen game play are not the same thing,

That's the key... but my post was probably too long winded although it makes the same point.

There is no magic 'next gen' its all going to be amazing now.  Technology is just an enabler - its what designers and developers do with it that matters.  Every generation of game tech has had innovation and mould breakers - games and experiences that were the first of their kind.

It's a real mistake to jump on one thing (Wimote, or HD graphics) and think that's what its all about.

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

alpha_dk on 05 May 2008
timmah said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
timmah said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
No current consoles do not provide a next generation game play experience.
BTW: Wii motion control is not innovative. The PC mouse uses motion control. point and click

I hope you're kidding. Seriously, this is one of the most clueless statements I have seen in a while. Comparing the PC Mouse to the Wii-mote is asenine and rediculous. The mouse senses movement in a 2-d space, somewhat similar to an analog thumbstick. The Wii Remote senses movement in a 2-d space (with the IR, similar point & click to the mouse), but it goes much further than that. It senses movement in a 3-d space, angle, g-force, etc, to produce a gaming experience never before available on any platform. This is innovative by every definition of the word. You comparison is not thought out, reasoned in the post, or reflecting reality in any way, and is pure trolling.


 Thank you for your opinion. To me there is motion control in PC Mouse.

 

Yes, there is some aspects of motion control in a mouse. The IR function of the Wii remote correlates perfectly with the fucntion of the mouse. My point is, the Wii-Remote does MUCH more, and has the ability to create a very different playing experience compared to either the mouse or the traditional console control scheme.

Directly comparing the mouse to the wii remote is an overly simplistic comparison and ignores the features of the wii remote that actually make it innovative.

I know some features of the Wii-remote have been tried in other niche markets (there are motion sensing games in arcades, for example), but Nintendo bringing this to the mass market when all the other consolse stuck to the same formula of standard controls + increased processing makes them the innovator in their field. You don't have to like them, but the fact that they stand out compared to the other consoles is undeniable. You can dislike the innovative steps they have taken, but IMO, there's really no denying that they have been innovative when compared to the other consoles.

Edit: BTW, I like the other consoles. I really enjoy traditional gameplay, and I appreciate graphics. I plan on either getting a better video card or a PS3 so I can expeirence both the Wii's innovative gameplay, and the kickass graphics offered by the alternatives, I want the best of both worlds.


Just a minor nitpick, timmah, that strengthens your argument:

 The Wii Remote actually doesn't correlate with a mouse with its IR.  Because of the 2 (well, 4) LEDs in the sensor bar, software is able to use some pretty basic trigonometry to get 3-D information from the Wii remote.  Okami does this, I'm pretty sure I remember MP3 doing it, and I think some other games probably do as well.  Devs can get 3-D info from the Wiimote, which is way more than a mouse (as they exist now) will ever be able to do.



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Slimebeast on 05 May 2008

In general next-gen doesn't give you spectacular gameplay, but there are cases where game-play has improved:

Oblivion



kingofwale on 05 May 2008
Viper1 said:
Godfather, Scarface, MOH, Super Paper Mario, Okami, NMH, Bully, LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, and more can all take longer to complete (or have great online) than MP3.

 okay, since nobody else is answering...

 Take away games that were also on other console and scored better on other consoles: God father, scarface, MOH, Okami, Bully, Lego Starwar.

 Take away games that doesn't even use motion control: Fire Emblem.

 

That leave you: NMH.

Pretty good game, but wasn't it aimed to release on 360 before changing it to Wii?



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Words Of Wisdom on 05 May 2008
kingofwale said:
Viper1 said:
Godfather, Scarface, MOH, Super Paper Mario, Okami, NMH, Bully, LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, and more can all take longer to complete (or have great online) than MP3.

okay, since nobody else is answering...

Take away games that were also on other console and scored better on other consoles: God father, scarface, MOH, Okami, Bully, Lego Starwar.

Take away games that doesn't even use motion control: Fire Emblem.

 

That leave you: NMH.

Pretty good game, but wasn't it aimed to release on 360 before changing it to Wii?


You missed Super Paper Mario.



TheRealMafoo on 05 May 2008
Reasonable said:

It's a real mistake to jump on one thing (Wimote, or HD graphics) and think that's what its all about.


I agree, yet the graphics in a PS3 and 360 are next gen, meaning technology had to advance to a point where they could be produced. The Wii mote could have been made 10 years ago. Nothing about it is technologically new. It just needed a brilliant mind to think it up.

So when talking about "Next Gen" game play, I would point to something like Gears of War 2 having 100 creatures with good AI charging you all at once. That could not have been done with the technology we has last gen. The Wii mote could have if someone had thought to make it.

I am not putting any distinction on what's more important to gaming, just clarifying the difference :)

 

P.S. I didn't even know you posted in here... going to go read it, as I always like what you have to say :) 



Magnific0 on 05 May 2008
Viper1 said:
Magnific0 said:
Well, last generation didn't have such great online play as the current one, community (interaction with friends while playing), online co-op, rankings, achievements. Current tech allows for a better cinematic flow for many games, you could chalk it up to raw power (graphics) but it definitely adds to the gameplay something more than just "make it look pretty". Next-gen also helps improve on physics, better AI, better framerate, better draw-distance. There are tons of things going on many of today's games that are not simply a result of "more polys, HDR, HD textures, better particle effects".

Xbox Live on Xbox offered the online portion you just mentioned last generation.

 

Better framerates?  No.  That will never be a next gen feature.  Frame rates are a balancing act developers will always fight with.   For example, we've had 60 fps games since the N64/PS1 days yet not even half the PS3 games run at 60 fps.  Ironically, more Wii titles run at 60 fps than PS3 titles but as I mentioned, this is not exactly realtive to raw horsepower.

 

 

Well, you disagree with a couple of points I presented, and you're partially wrong with one of them since it's obvious online gameplay (as rich as it is NOW) is a next-gen feature or we could be talking about X-Band and Sega Dreamcast here. And keep in mind I talked about BETTER framerates, I never said 60fps. So you say some PS1/N64 games had great framerates. May I ask you, doing what exactly? Wii games have titles running at 60fps, but what's happening on screen? My point is a next-gen console handles LOTS of things (that add to the global gameplay suchs as physics, AI, more characters, HDR, effects, etc) with a steady framerate that is just not possible with last-gen hardware. It may not be 60fps most of the time sure, but you won't so often see slowdown showing up as it did in COMPARABLY COMPLEX games of last generation. Does that make gameplay better? Definitely.